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What does this forum do?
Good day.
Just wanted to say that I believe that this forum seems to be mainly there for having some petty party struggles, creating your own fantasy "groups" and "factions" and then arguing who was "scientifically" right in interpreting Marxism.
People argue about Stalin, Mao and Tito as if they had been there and under their rule in the time, while im pretty sure the people who do this on this forum consist mostly of westerners who have a revolutionary crush on these militaristic leaders. Why, i dont know. But none of these people take their literature with a pinch of salt - "Oh look, The CCP/Stalin/Lenin/Propaganda ministry" wrote this - It must be true!
They start a thread "what has comrade stalin done for us" or "The soviet union was a true workers state". Then they get all excited on how great soviet russia was etc, then the "anti-Stalinists" come (something people can actually agree on) and tell everybody "Wow stalin was such a bad guy, killed a lot of people etc" and then get rep points for standing against the bad stalinists.
How does this even matter in the real world? Arguing to and fro about the Soviet Union (which has crumbled) and Authoritarian leaders (who are dead) will not actually advance any leftist cause.
Lets face it - nobody likes all this retro-marxist crap, and instead of looking to 21st century problems of a highly advanced urbanised culture, many turn back and say: "Wow, great, lets embellish 20th century revolutionary ideals which were adapted to backward, semi-feudal culturally isolated countries!"
And when anybody comes along with anything vaguely new, they are labeled bourgeois reactionary class traitors etc (you know the deal).
Im asking myself: Why bother? What do these people contribute at all just by staying in their isolated little views? Arent you people just as "conservative" and intolerant as the people who you want to oust from power?
When i see what a lot of these sad "wannabe revolutionaries" post, i wanna tell them:
Take a good look at all the utter rubbish I see a lot of you churning out on a steady basis and actually THINK before you POST. The word "Stalin" and "Mao" will literally make people stop listening to you in any serious conversation about today's problems.
So I hope that all the people who keep going on the Stalinist/Soviet Union threads can realize that it is much more productive to just ignore these commie-conservatives and instead make new threads on the 21st century situation of workers and how to solve real problems. Posting again and again elaborate and factual replies on why Soviet Union failed - nobody cares, really. Been there, done that, and Stalinists refuse to acknowledge these "western conspiracy theories" - so why bother?!
To outsiders, im sure this faction squabbling and pseudo-scientific talking makes it look like the left is actually not a thread to anybody at the moment - they are too busy fighting amongst each other!
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
28350, CommieCoss, Comrade Dracula, Delenda Carthago, Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant', DinodudeEpic, EdgyandOriginal, El Oso Rojo, Franz Fanonipants, hatzel, Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores, Loony, Lorenzo, maskerade, Misanthrope, Misocratist, NGNM85, Proukunin, Railyon, Revolution starts with U, Rooster, teflon_john, Tim Finnegan, Trap Queen Voxxy, Zostrianos
Why is it that the vast majority of people on this site are anti "great leader," and yet we have to listen to people say things like "this forum is mainly for... people (to) argue about Stalin and Tito..." ????
I'll tell you why; people focus on the negatives, often no matter how much positive is right in their face.
EDIT: other than that I agree with your point, pretty much.
Save a species, have ginger babies!
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein
Roosterism, as based mainly on the teachings of Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels and Rooster, is the highest qualitative stage of Marxism so far and is the guiding ideology of revolutionaries the world over who carry forward the fight for a world free of all class distinctions, all exploitative production relations, all oppressive social relations, and all corresponding, reactionary ideas - the communist world of the future.
Speak the truth, fellow Roosterist!
"The exploited are not carriers of any positive project, be it even the classless society (which all too closely resembles the productive set up). Capital is their only community. They can only escape by destroying everything that makes them exploited...Capitalism has not created the conditions of its overcoming in communism-the famous bourgeoisie forging the arms of its own extinction-but of a world of horrors." -At Daggers Drawn
"Our strategy is therefore the following: to establish and maintain a series of centers of desertion, or poles of secession, of rallying points. For runaways. For those who leave. A series of places where we can escape from the influence of a civilization that is headed for the abyss." -Tiqqun, Call
@NewLeft:
Ive been on this forum for quite a while, and as much as I would like to cite all the examples for my claims, the list would be too long. Just search anything in the search bar with "Stalin" "Soviet Union", look at what kind of polls are asked, look how the arguments on this forum on this forum all appear circular and rethorical (the fronts are clear, there is no actual dialectic anymore), et voila you have your examples.
I hope this satisfies you query?
Last edited by W1N5T0N; 24th April 2012 at 19:43.
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
Because a small amount of great-leader-worshipping Stalinists and quasi-Stalinists post a lot and hijack every thread, this doesn't mean that we're all idiots.
...though maybe I am an idiot, perhaps I shouldn't speak for others, because I still don't understand the real reason I was restricted.
The roosterist group is probably the best group on the forum for a quiet, serious discussion.
So....you belive just because we line up with the beliefs of people from before our time and we still make an effort to participate in, contribute to, debate about and overall live in the modern world we are all Stalin worshipping tankies who never leave the safety of our own homes even though we Marx-leninists (who don't do any of that by the way) only make up a fraction of this site?
Sir, you are deranged.
Comrade Samuel: The defender of truth, justice and the un-American way.
because communists are boring and the anarchists are all secret liberals/chimos
@Borz sorry if it came over as me regarding other members as idiots - i do not. However, my point was that quite a bit of discussion on this forum seems to either go in circles or re-evaluation of soviet union. Just saying if the Stalinists/ML's/Maoists etc hijack a thread or make a new one - isolate them, don't react to the reactionaries. And it seems like they are not so much a minority as one might think
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
I consider(ed?) this forum a nice tool for the communication and information transmit between people in far places, something vital in our era. The ideal for me would be the issues that that would be between people who give struggles in real life, everyone with its own way never the less. But unfortunatly it seems sometimes that people just want to discuss about things that have just a gossip meaning into it.
Lets all try to give our best selfs to this, as it could really be a really nice advertise for communist ideas. I think we have to start taking ourselves a lil more seriously.
Welcome to the club, amigo.
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
I hardly ever see what you describe happening, in fact, I see the exact opposite.
Hardly ever? Maybe i've been on the wrong forum then all this time- pardon me!
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
I think it's fun to discuss past leaders of socialist countries, not because I worship them, but I think it is fun to learn about them! =)
"No force, no torture, no intrigue, no deception can eradicate Marxism-Leninism from the minds and hearts of men."
- Enver Hoxha
"All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God."
- Voltaire
This forum is like an old fashioned lightbulb. Most of its energy is wasted in producing heat, but the relatively small amount of light it gives is essential to what we want to do. That's probably true of all forums on all subjects.
To put it another way: There's a high quantity of noise, but a high quality of signal. So perhaps you need to install better noise filters :-).
"Marxism has been changed; from a revolutionary theory it has become an ideology." - Karl Korsh (1950)
I like how your post finished up with the : "Oh those damn ML's!"
I remember you,you were a beginner Trot which tried to debate,but i see you gave up,or forgot Trotskyism.Which is good,good for you comrade.It seems Rev-Left did do something right.
He's probably mad at us because we shitted on his god, Trotsky.
what does any discussion forum do, really?
bring out the worst in people...?
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
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"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
