Thread: cubas economic problems

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  1. #1
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    How has globalization affected Cuba’s economy? Well to understand this better we have to know what set the stage for the current state of Cuba. We have to ask questions like. before 1959 who controlled the Cuba economy? After 59 how did Cuba outlast the embargo? What is the Cuban way of heath and education? After 89 how did Cuba deal with the loss of assistance form the soviet bloc? When we know all this then we can ask ourselves, how has globalization affected Cuba in current times? What did the September 11 attacks mean for Cuba? What is the Cubans economy geared towards? And what does overseas investment mean to Cuba?

    Before Castro come to power in 1959 Cuba was owned by the U.S.A 60% of the country including the rail network, telecommunication and also 51% of the sugar cane owned by the united fruit company and the Rockefeller family. There was also a great amount of tourism 300,000 a year from the U.S.A meaning that the economic gap between Havana and the surrounding areas was great.

    After 1959 a socialist government took power. They emplaced strategies such as nationalizing big business and then small business this meaning that all goods and services where run and provided by the government. With the U.S. embargo in place Cuba lost its strongest trading partner. Leading Cuba to find help else were. This help came from the soviet bloc which gave assistance to the value of 6 billon a year half of the totally given by the Soviet Union. The bloc helped in other ways supplying Cuba with oil and light machinery and buying there sugar at an inflated price.

    Another strategy adopted by the Castro government was starting universal education and health care. One of the first steps to becoming a developed country is having a high Literacy rate, Cuba having 97% of the total population over 15 being able to read. This literacy rate is the highest in Latin America. Also with the universal health care this keeps the people fit and in good shape for the labour force.

    After the reduction of assistance in 1989 from the U.S.S.R. and then there fall in 1991. The country suffered greatly. This change leads Cuba on a decline because of its size it doesn’t have the population to be self sufficient unlike china, they only number 11 million. This decline went from 1990 till 1995 and now is on the path of slow regrowth. To combat this lost of income they started to Promote tourism on a large scale with joint projects with overseas company’s to build or improve resorts around Havana. Also trying to diversify there exports and put them through a value chain.

    The current state of Cuba? Unemployment rate is 4.1% and Life expectancy at birth
    total population: 76.8 years, also Cuba has a slow growing G.D.P. growing around 1.0 a year this peaked in 1996 at 7.8% which is quite good seeing that the world average is 2% per year. Cuba has a GDP of $17.3 billion meaning that it relies on foreign investment. The three main ways this happens is joint ventures with overseas companies, tourism, and money being sent in by overseas families to there relatives this alone accounts for 1 billion a year.



    What did the September 11 attacks mean for Cuba? Well Cuba relies heavily on tourism providing overseas currencies. When the September 11 attacks happened consumer conference in travel declined because of the fear of terrorism. This trend of low consumer conference in travel meant a decline of economic activity because of a domino affect with meant there was a reduction of capital that otherwise would have circulated generating business activity which is state sector 76%, non-state sector 24%. This is a reason why overseas investment is needed to increase circulation of capital stimulating the economy. This is a dilemma or catch 22 for Castro because none will invest if they have no interest or returns meaning that the government will have to free up enterprise for foreign companies.

    What is the Cuban economy geared towards? Well I can say without much argument that Fidel is not an economist, the country is still geared towards one crop sugar with is subject to radical price change because of its availability and nature as a raw product with no added value. When most developed or high income economies focus on services and/or secondary industries. This means that Cuba is in a state of transition between developing to becoming a newly developed economy.

    What does overseas investment mean for Cuba? Foreign investment is very important to Cuba because in disperses capital into the economy. Thus increasing economic activity, the government’s strategies are trying to attracted investment and tourism. One of the main problems with this is overseas companies have to pay Cuban workers $250 per month (the workers only receive 250 Paso works out to $10 per month), this would be quite small for a developed country but in standing with other underdeveloped country puts them at a disadvantage. At this moment the government is working with a Spanish company on a resort. Putting it’s self in the position, that when the embargo is dropped they will be able to take the influxes of tourism. There are more problems facing Cuba with there current account or balance of payments being in the red because Imports are $3 billion and Exports are $1.4 billion.

    Over all there strategies of health and education are greatly helping the human development in Cuba. With attracting foreign investment and tourism this a good strategy to make up the shortfall left by the soviet removing aid. But the main problem they face is distributing surpluses wealth/ capital so they don’t have the say problem with people in Havana wealthy and in the rest of the country poorer. This is to keep in with there morals or beliefs. My advice to Cuba would be to develop there service sector and secondary industries so they can participate in the global economy at a greater rate.





    So what are you're comments, how should Fidel face these problems of attracting overseas investment but also distributing surpluses wealth? (to prevent what was happening before 1959)
  2. #2
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    I might like to comment on this later, but first I want to say, great post. Second, what is your source for this information?
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    Thanks for likening my post, but as for where I sourced my information I got it of some web sites and books. But first I would like to say it’s hard to get a accurate information because the Cuba government only gives out the information they wont to give out and when they wont to. So most of the information is old or estimated (not by me), so ill have a look at my post latter and date it all.

    As for the web sites I can’t find the links that I was using but I have saved the articles in word so if you won’t them I can post them. Also I used revolutionary Cuba by a Mr. Cannon.
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    GDP: purchasing power parity—$17.3 billion (1998 est.)
    GDP—real growth rate: 1.2% (1998 est.)
    GDP—per capita: purchasing power parity—$1,560 (1998 est.)
    GDP—composition by sector:
    agriculture: 7.4%
    industry: 36.5%
    services: 56.1% (1997 est.)
    Population below poverty line: NA%
    Household income or consumption by percentage share:
    lowest 10%: NA%
    highest 10%: NA%
    Inflation rate (consumer prices): NA%
    Labor force: 4.5 million economically active population (1996 est.)
    note: state sector 76%, non-state sector 24% (1996 est.)
    Labor force—by occupation: services and government 30%, industry 22%, agriculture 20%, commerce 11%, construction 10%, transportation and communications 7% (June 1990)
    Unemployment rate: 6.8% (1997 est.)
    Budget:
    revenues: $12.3 billion
    expenditures: $13 billion , including capital expenditures of $NA (1998 est.)
    Industries: sugar, petroleum, food, tobacco, textiles, chemicals, paper and wood products, metals (particularly nickel), cement, fertilizers, consumer goods, agricultural machinery
    Industrial production growth rate: 6% (1995 est.)
    Electricity—production: 14.1 billion kWh (1997)
    Electricity—production by source:
    fossil fuel: 98.96%
    hydro: 1.04%
    nuclear: 0%
    other: 0% (1996)
    Electricity—consumption: 14.1 billion kWh (1997)
    Electricity—exports: 0 kWh (1996)
    Electricity—imports: 0 kWh (1996)
    Agriculture—products: sugarcane, tobacco, citrus, coffee, rice, potatoes, beans; livestock
    Exports: $1.4 billion (f.o.b., 1998 est.)
    Exports—commodities: sugar, nickel, tobacco, shellfish, medical products, citrus, coffee
    Exports—partners: Russia 27%, Canada 18%, Spain 8% (1998 est.)
    Imports: $3 billion (c.i.f., 1998 est.)
    Imports—commodities: petroleum, food, machinery, chemicals
    Imports—partners: Spain 17%, France 9%, Canada 9% (1998 est.)
    Debt—external: $10.1 billion (convertible currency, 1997); another $20 billion owed to Russia (1997)
    Economic aid—recipient: $46 million (1997 est.)
    Currency: 1 Cuban peso (Cu&#036 = 100 centavos
    Exchange rates: Cuban pesos (Cu&#036 per US$1—1.0000 (nonconvertible, official rate, linked to the US dollar)
    Fiscal year: calendar year

    thats were i got most of my state from and also http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...ok/geos/cu.html which is more up to date but mostly estimated. so you can look at the dates nexts to the facts to see were i sourced them from.
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    Cuba: Common sense analysis

    Cuba is a complete failure as a nation state that is readily apparent to anyone with an open mind who is willing to think critically. Despite this many of you in this forum choice to deny this fact, I’m not sure why. It hurts your case if you can’t be honest and admit that Castro is repressive dictator and his methods are no different then that of any other communist state. This includes torture of political dissidents, threats and intimidation of family members; the use of murder, and starvation as a political tool and support of narco trafficking and terror. Again for some reason many of you choice to turn a blind eye to this and accuse me of spreading US government propaganda. We’ll fine don’t believe me Cuba’s human rights abuses are well documented. You need only go to the many LIBREAL human rights organizations for their information. It all chronicles the same awful tragedies. Human Rights Watch (a left wing socialist outfit) has published their 1999 report on Cuba on the web

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/

    Its very well organized so you jump around to the relevant topics her is just a snippet from the section titled Repression of Dissidents,

    “Cuban authorities continue to treat as criminal offenses nonviolent activities such as meeting to discuss the economy or elections, writing letters to the government, reporting on political or economic developments, speaking to international reporters, or advocating the release of political prisoners”

    Again you can check out Amnesty international’s report (another left wing organization)

    http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/...=COUNTRIESCUBA

    This organization is very good at focusing world attention to specific cases where injustice is done.

    Last but not least let’s not forget every liberals favorite bureaucracy the United Nations, in December of 1996 the general assembly voted to …
    “…called on the Cuban Government to release people detained for political activities.” (the vote was 62 to 25).

    Once again in april of 1999 the council in a resolution which was adopted by a roll-call vote of 21 in favour and 20 against, with 1 abstention voted to…
    “expressed its concern about the adoption of the Law for the Protection of National Independence and Economy of Cuba, and regretted the other steps taken by the Government which were inconsistent with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other relevant human-rights instruments; called upon the Cuban Government to ensure respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms”

    Coming from the United Nations that’s practically a triad!

    If you are intellectually honest and all of this bothers you there is something you can do the World Organization Against Torture has all the contact information for key personal in the Cuban government you can urge them to adopt a more transparent form of government.

    http://www.omct.org/displaydocument....53&Language=EN
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  6. #6
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    Crusader 4 da truth you have cursed straight past the true nature of the topic. I am talking about the economics of Cuba not the human rights. You have also subjectively assumed that I support Fidel’s treatment of political rivals. Which if you’ve read anything I’ve written on Fidel’s government in other posts you will know my view’s, so if you wont to talk to me about cubes human rights record, write to me in a post about human rights not economics.

    So in this post instead of just saying ”Cuba is a complete failure as a nation state” back it up some objective economic facts, then we can say your name fits your nature because now you seem very hypercritical and bias not looking at the big picture and many sources rather changing topics to better suit your whim’s.
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    Euripidies:While this is a good post, I have to question some of the numbers posted..not by you...but from your sources. I agree that cuba will print whatever and whenever they want so long as it makes them look good. However, one must only travel to cuba (outside the tourist, dollar-areas), to see that unemployment rate you posted is highly inaccurate.

    Another thing..cuba can no longer count on exporting sugar anymore. If anything, they're buying more and more sugar from other countries due to their inefficiencies of growing the crop and maintaining the land. My uncle worked in the "Agri" in cuba before he was executed.

    I strongly believe that for cuba to pick itself off the economic floor, castro will have to die. This will be enough of a catlyst for other nations to start investing in cuba again. It is well-known that castro does NOT pay off debts and defuncts on them regularly. That is why many countries including the US has refused to deal with him using credit. Cash up front! I know you didn't want me to mention it, but it simply CANNOT be overlooked. His human rights violations play a BIG ROLE on why more countries refuse to deal with cuba.

    PS-I'll ask my father what cuba has done to its once grand sugar production. He knows more about this than I do. actually he knows A LOT of the island. Would you like me to ask him anything?
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    ask your dad if he thinks Cubans are worse off than any other third world country.
    ask your dad if cubans have a greater sense of national pride than other latin american countries because of Fidel.
    ask your dad why there is overwhelming support for castro in cuba.
    ask your dad why a small contingent of anti-casto cubans in miami are controlling the entire US foreign policy to cuba.
    ask your dad why the US considers Cuba to be a terrorist state.
    ask your dad why cuba is on the human rights commission of the UN while the united states just got kicked off.
    ask your dad why every year the UN votes everyone in the world against US and israel to lift the trade embargo.
    ask your dad why the US will not lift the embargo until Cuba promises to give its citizens rights that not even people in the US have.
    ask your dad if he's proud that cubans own cuba.
    ask your dad if Cuba has set a good example of standing up to the US for other latin american countries.
    ask your dad why Cuba is struggling so much havesting the sugar.
    ask your dad why his son hates a man who has spent every hour of his life for the last fifty years fighting for the cuban people.
    The people are afraid poorly. Poor is not the socialism. We diligently struggle positively to construct. But, in the good heart's core, the dignity and just forever is higher than richly. We forever and peace-loving people in same place. The formidable imperialism dares rampant. Then, we must fight with it. We do not need too to argue. Practice. We must win. The world people unite as one, does not divide the belief nationality and the region. Our friendship long live.

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    Unemployment rate you posted is highly inaccurate
    The unemployment rate is not what we should be looking at. The unemployment rate only counts the people in work and looking for work, so 4.1% the of work force is still looking for work. What you should look at is the participation rate, how many people out of the total working age is in the workforce. So the county could have participation of 50% meaning that the other haft aren’t working and that 4.1% of that 50% are still looking for work and haven’t given up like the others. But there are also cultural aspects to take into consideration when looking at participation. If the people of that country believe women should not work and stay at home, there participation rate would be much lower.

    cuba to pick itself off the economic floor, castro will have to die
    At the moment Cuba has 370 joint ventures with overseas companies, mainly from Spain. We have to remember what it was like economical before 1959 and how it was a 3rd world country then and still is but it is making progress none the less.




    There the only points I didn’t agree with or wonted to talk about in this thread. Because I won’t to talk about economics of Cuba I will start a new thread for human rights in Cuba. As for questions for your dad ill have a think about it but the ones Alejandro C aren’t that bad though you can see what he thinks about the whole world of issues involving Cuba so maybe some of them should be talked about in other threads. Oh and for cubes sugar problems ill have a look for some stuff on that I haven’t as yet found anything about sugar problems bar what I’ve already posted.
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    Fair enough. I'll ask him those questions. They seem sarcastic but nonetheless pretty good. But remember, sarcastic or not, YOU asked me to ask HIM those questions. A humble man of modest living that has LIVED before during and AFTER the revolution, so don't tell me afterwards that whatever HE answers is bullshit! You asked, so you'll have to accept his answers like it or not, no matter how much you may disagree with fact!

    I'll get back to this post with his answers in about a day or so.
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    the hell? the answers he gives will be the opinion of a civilian. i don't have to accept them over fact, i'm just interested in the answers. i've talked to quite a few cubans about most of those questions and everyone has different answers.
    The people are afraid poorly. Poor is not the socialism. We diligently struggle positively to construct. But, in the good heart's core, the dignity and just forever is higher than richly. We forever and peace-loving people in same place. The formidable imperialism dares rampant. Then, we must fight with it. We do not need too to argue. Practice. We must win. The world people unite as one, does not divide the belief nationality and the region. Our friendship long live.

    Comrade @[email protected]
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    Originally posted by Alejandro C@Dec 11 2003, 05:54 PM
    the hell? the answers he gives will be the opinion of a civilian. i don't have to accept them over fact, i'm just interested in the answers. i've talked to quite a few cubans about most of those questions and everyone has different answers.
    no, we have to accept the answers, cos totalitarianism is practiced in this thread..
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  13. #13
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    cs how can we know who you are? we can't so we have to be critical of what you say. other wise you could feed as alot of lies.
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    your takeing a long time to write back cs dont you like the anwsers or something??



    (if any one else wonts to comment feel free)
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    Originally posted by Crusader 4 da truth@Dec 9 2003, 07:36 PM
    Cuba: Common sense analysis

    Cuba is a complete failure as a nation state that is readily apparent to anyone with an open mind who is willing to think critically. Despite this many of you in this forum choice to deny this fact, I’m not sure why.
    Crusader i suggest you star a new thread and post this exact post.
    AND yes people on this forum decide they wont believe stalin and Castro violated human rights, and this was admitted by the left-wing socialist human rights group you mentioned.
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    Originally posted by euripidies@Dec 5 2003, 08:26 AM





    So what are you're comments, how should Fidel face these problems of attracting overseas investment but also distributing surpluses wealth? (to prevent what was happening before 1959)
    First of all , i do question those numbers, i believe cuba provides those numbers so that is questionable that all numbers are correct. But thats for another discussion so I will just answer your question.

    First this quesiton.

    Would bringing foreign investments go against Castro's communist ideals? I mean he did kick out the overseas investment that existed when he took over CUBA.

    Now. I think overseas investment should be welcomed, because that is what free trade is all about.

    Under Fidel the surplus wealth will not be well distributed, most will go to his own luxuries and into his pocket and those who are in gov. will aslo receive most of that money.
    Very little of that money will see the public.

    But if im wrong then he should raise everyone's salary.

    another question, WHY arent cubans allowed to use the foreign hotels (i mean the hotels that are owned by foreing investors) only tourist can use those hotels, no cubans. I also know that there are certain stores only for tourist whcih the cubans cant shop in, its not like they could anyway, cause they cant afford anything in there anyway.
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    Would bringing foreign investments go against Castro's communist ideals?
    now the state still has control over the investments and where the money goes. but most people don’t call Cuba communist they feel it only uses that name or did use that name to get help from the U.S.S.R.

    I mean he did kick out the overseas investment that existed when he took over CUBA.
    yes he nationalized all big business, which I feel is find before you had capital flight were all the money was heading over seas. also like i said before 60% of Cuba rail telecommunication were owned by the U.S.A. and 51% of the sugar crop meaning that people outside the tourist area of Havana were really really poor.

    I think overseas investment should be welcomed, because that is what free trade is all about
    i think free trade needs to be avoided at all cost so you don’t have the same thing happening with no distribution of wealth.

    Under Fidel the surplus wealth will not be well distributed, most will go to his own luxuries and into his pocket and those who are in gov. will aslo receive most of that money.
    what information do you have to make that kind of claim Fidel cares about those people so much, I can't believe you could say that even people that are against Fidel so he does care about the people one quote i heard was "his not the kind of dictator with a Swiss bank account".

    WHY arent cubans allowed to use the foreign hotels (i mean the hotels that are owned by foreing investors) only tourist can use those hotels, no cubans.
    again very good idea its to stop capital flight so the money stays in cuba therefore it can be used for the Cuban people. That’s the same idea with the shops too.
  18. #18
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    Originally posted by el_profe@Dec 20 2003, 10:59 PM
    WHY arent cubans allowed to use the foreign hotels (i mean the hotels that are owned by foreing investors) only tourist can use those hotels, no cubans. I also know that there are certain stores only for tourist whcih the cubans cant shop in, its not like they could anyway, cause they cant afford anything in there anyway.
    Many members of the forum will tell you that they have not been allowed into some hotels in Cuba. Simply because they were not staying there. Explain your second comment, Please supply some GOOD sources too.
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    Originally posted by Death@Dec 20 2003, 11:19 PM
    [ Explain your second comment, Please supply some GOOD sources too.
    people that have lived their and visited their.
    the one that lived their actually had a brother born their, but since their dad, was from spain. I think he worked in the embassy or with a company im not sure, the point was they lived in cuba for a lot of time.
    He went to private shcool used for kids of people who work for international companies that have hotels etc. in cuba.

    And i know like 5 or 6 people that have recently visted cuba.
    Those are my sources for that.
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    Originally posted by el_profe+Dec 20 2003, 11:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (el_profe @ Dec 20 2003, 11:26 PM)
    Death
    @Dec 20 2003, 11:19 PM
    [ Explain your second comment, Please supply some GOOD sources too.
    people that have lived their and visited their.
    the one that lived their actually had a brother born their, but since their dad, was from spain. I think he worked in the embassy or with a company im not sure, the point was they lived in cuba for a lot of time.
    He went to private shcool used for kids of people who work for international companies that have hotels etc. in cuba.

    And i know like 5 or 6 people that have recently visted cuba.
    Those are my sources for that. [/b]
    Funny that, Because all the people that i know that have visited Cuba say nothing but praise of the Island. Secondly, Worms are known to be terible liars.
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