no it isn't.
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As far as I know, there isn't any set definition of "sane" or "insane", clinically. The new psychiatrists (they're two) say that he has personality disturbances, isn't that considered "insane"?
Regarding your last remark, could you elaborate what you mean? By "popular definition" I was referring to what's considered normal and acceptable by society. I can see how this is ideological, but how is it "not at all obvious that he is insane"?
EDIT: Just found out that the norwegian word I translated with "responsible" also could be translated with "sane". Are we talking over each others' heads here?
Last edited by Zukunftsmusik; 12th April 2012 at 16:04.
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
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"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
no it isn't.
I'm bound to stay
Where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk
That invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
Here I think you're absolutely correct. The media circus is exactly what he wants.
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
-----
"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
INSANITY DEFENCE OR TEMPORARY INSANITY LAW IS NOT IN USE IN NORWAY. The defendant if deemed mentally ill is sent for treatment. That seems reasonable. He has shown he is fit to plead and defend himself with the aid of lawyers. Personality disorders covers such wide ground, without further info it is pointless for me to comment further.
Night has one thousand eyes
Fair trial for a person who killed 70 kids? no thank you.
No mercy! Execution! Execution!
I'm not joking. If he is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be guilty, kill him. It is a little thing called called justice. He killed 77 people and destroyed the lives of many others. Should he not at least lose his one life for that many people killed?
how on earth will killing him bring about "justice"? how will the loss of his life bring back the lives of the 77 people he killed?
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
-----
"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
Bit dumb to see leftists desperate for tough justice and moaning about how soft prisons are, shouldn't we be more interested in the conditions that inspire a person to carry out an attack like this and not just blindly calling for the State to be given the power to execute a man, that's just a knee jerk emotional response that won't solve anything. Some of the views in this thread would be more at home on a Conservative forum
Perhaps it will prevent some other people from doing the same thing and spare the lives of possible future victims. Christian terrorists aren't as audacious as Islamic terrorists. Most Christian terrorists are actually scared of dying. You never see a Christian terrorist blowing up an abortion clinic with a suicide bomb (not that one kind of terrorist is better than the other).
Kill him. No prison.
Oh yeah, because capital punishment has been shown to be such a good deterrent
Isn't that the point of Christianity? to die so you can go to paradise.
This individual craves publicity, this we know. His desire to wear a crown of thorns and self portrayal as a martyr must be denied to him, also. Lets not even speak his name.
Night has one thousand eyes
Yeah, but they have shown to be not as excited about death as other terrorists.
Suicide is taboo, but as most religions are death-cults, someone else murdering them is something that many fundamentalists will embrace. This nutter would just view it as him sacrificing his life for European culture or some such nonsense.
I'm not sure that we're agreeing on facts here.
The psychiatrists diagnosing him earlier declared him insane and thus unfit to be taken legally responsible for his actions.
The other one overturned this assessment and assessed him as fit for trial and sentencing - this, for all our purposes, declaring that he is not insane.
I'm no psychiatrists, but when speaking about "personality disturbances" we might notice that this doesn't necessarily represent a diagnosis that would declare him insane and thus unfit for trial.
It's precisely not obvious since what you call "popular definition" is in fact a moral judgement - and not a psychiatric judgement. Thus, for insatnce, homosexuality might as well be considered as evidence of insanity in certain societies. It's not obvious since there is a conflict over the way we conceive of insanity.
Possibly.
FKA LinksRadikal
“The possibility of securing for every member of society, by means of socialized production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially, and becoming day by day more full, but an existence guaranteeing to all the free development and exercise of their physical and mental faculties – this possibility is now for the first time here, but it is here.” Friedrich Engels
"The proletariat is its struggle; and its struggles have to this day not led it beyond class society, but deeper into it." Friends of the Classless Society
"Your life is survived by your deeds" - Steve von Till
Exactly. Killing him would just fulfill his dreams of becoming a martyr.
I'm quite confident now that I've misunderstood both the norwegian word for "sane" (because it resembles words such as "responsible") and the meaning of the words "insane/sane". I think you're correct.
I see now, and agree. Thanks for the correction.
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
-----
"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
death is an easy out and gives him his martyrdom while denying any chance for redemption, which even the worst among us has a chance at. your concept of 'justice' is simply vengeance.
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
The prison cells in Norway are pretty good.
Many say it's because Norway has so much money. Partly that and the fact that they want prisoners to rehabilitate, and become better when they come out again (Life sentence is 21 year) I don't think Breivik is ever going to loose his Anti-left views, so he will never get out of prison.
This man shows no regret and has nearly not been in a bad mood ever since he was taken by the police, so he will probably never get out. The best lawyer in Norway was at my school recently and talked about this =)
"No force, no torture, no intrigue, no deception can eradicate Marxism-Leninism from the minds and hearts of men."
- Enver Hoxha
"All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God."
- Voltaire
I have every confidence that Norwegian people will make their voice heard. They will not allow this murderer to set an agenda for them. We must all respect their wishes at this most terrible of times. Terrible enough to have harboured this person amongst you, best that you never mention his name again. He has nothing to say. If we all ignore him then he is silenced for good.
If he needs medical treatment these can be administered. The public must be protected. His Crusader army has vanished it seems, somehow people will have to move on from this terrible tragedy.
Night has one thousand eyes
Of course it is far easier for people to label men or women who do things like Anders Behring Breivik when they are labelled as mentally ill, when in reality this plays into two things; the stigma that many mentally ill people face, that they are somehow more prone to violence than those who aren't mentally ill - which just isn't true at all.
As well as the notion that an "ordinary well person" couldn't possibly commit atrocities! The reality is it's just easier to feel better about ourselves when we separate out people who commit atrocities, putting them into a different plane, "othering" them so to speak. But in reality, ordinary, rational human beings are completely capable of horrible things. Some of these people are mentally ill but plenty of them are not.
It's just easier for many people to deal with such things when the person happens to be different in some way.
As far as prison goes, anybody calling for him to be put into some sort of disgusting inhumane hellhole like in the US, really needs to rethink their position. The way prisoners there are treated is absolutely an atrocity in and of itself, and it doesn't improve society, and it doesn't truly help anybody.
All the violence, hatred, and oppression in the world isn't going to change what happened. Somebody doing something horrible isn't cause to do the same. An eye for an eye is very, very wrong imo. Incarceration, fine. But a person's crimes, no matter the severity, don't justify treating them like they are subhuman.
Patience has its limits. Take it too far, and it's cowardice. -George Jackson
There is no such thing as an innocent bystander. -Abbie Hoffman
