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With the question of homosexuality and other social questions in the Soviet Union,usualy comes the question of abortion,and why it was 'banned' . The answer is not because "Glorious Soviet state was controlled by Stalin and he hated abortion" but because there was a real existing problem of the birth rates,and,like the question of homosexuality,the question of abortion in 1936,can't be pulled out of the time frame,and criticized from the modern perspective.
This is a common explanation.
- In 1936, in view of the rising standard of welfare of the people, the government passed a law prohibiting abortion, at the same time adopting an extensive program for the building of maternity homes, nurseries, milk centers and kindergartens. In 1936, 2,174,000,000 rubles were assigned for these measures, as compared with 875 million rubles in 1935. A law was passed providing for considerable grants to large families. Grants to a total of over one billion rubles were made in 1937 under this law. Commission of the Central Committee of the C.P.S.U. (B.), Ed. History of the CPSU (Bolsheviks): Short Course. Moscow: FLPH, 1939, p. 340
The thread is about homosexuality, though, which I can assure you wasn't made illegal based on birth rates. The issue of abortion, for what it's worth, was actually popularly debated at the time, with all sorts of opinions coming forth from across the country (see Sarah Davies' Popular Opinion in Stalin's Russia, pp. 65-68.)
* h0m0revolutionary: "neo-liberalism can deliver healthy children, it can educate them, it can feed them, it can clothe them and leave them fully contented."
* rooster: "Supporting [anti-imperialism] is reactionary. How is any nation supposed to stand up [to] the might of the US anyway?"
* nizan: "Fuck your education is empowerment bullshit, education is alienation, nothing more. You indulge in a dying prestige for a role in a bureaucratic spectacle deserving of nothing beyond contempt."
* Alexios: "To the Board Administration: Ismail [...] needs to be eliminated from this forum."
Well,sorry for the interuption,but the two (Homosexuality/Abortion) usually come up in pair when people criticize the Soviet society.
When i mentioned the problems with the birth rates,i linked it with abortion,not homosexuality.
And yes,for an example,many doctors were involved in the debate around the abortion discussion,and many other specialists.
The point is that it's pointless and a loss of time to criticize the decisions made in the '30 looking from a modern-day perspective.And it's even worse to criticize a political ideology based on a decision made so many years ago,because,a contemporary Marxist-Leninist state would obviously make different decisions.
So you're saying LGBT people are sub-humans? Thanks for sharing, but this is a revolutionary forum, not a reactionary one.
"I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
If you want to continue this conversation with him, you'll have to do it in OI.
Why then was it made legal almost immediately after the revolution then made illegal again under Stalin?
It's not like no one thought that. It was legalized then RE-illegalized under a different leadership.
Last edited by Leftsolidarity; 5th April 2012 at 23:58.
Freedom before Peace
The constitution was scrapped, so it was 'legalized.'
You know, if Stalin actually had eaten a few infants back in the day I bet M-Ls would defend him for it.
You should probably go and kill yourself. That would make the world a much better place if you and fucking morons like you weren't in it. The only good bigot is a dead bigot.
"The exploited are not carriers of any positive project, be it even the classless society (which all too closely resembles the productive set up). Capital is their only community. They can only escape by destroying everything that makes them exploited...Capitalism has not created the conditions of its overcoming in communism-the famous bourgeoisie forging the arms of its own extinction-but of a world of horrors." -At Daggers Drawn
"Our strategy is therefore the following: to establish and maintain a series of centers of desertion, or poles of secession, of rallying points. For runaways. For those who leave. A series of places where we can escape from the influence of a civilization that is headed for the abyss." -Tiqqun, Call
Absolutely not OK, dude.
I thought it sounded pretty ok to me...
but anyhow, this is off topic
Freedom before Peace
No death wishes please, makes the forum look less vicious.lol
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Sorry, read it and got a little angry. I am straight, but one of my best friends is gay and it pissed me off to no end to read such an ignorant and arrogant comment by some dipshit.
"The exploited are not carriers of any positive project, be it even the classless society (which all too closely resembles the productive set up). Capital is their only community. They can only escape by destroying everything that makes them exploited...Capitalism has not created the conditions of its overcoming in communism-the famous bourgeoisie forging the arms of its own extinction-but of a world of horrors." -At Daggers Drawn
"Our strategy is therefore the following: to establish and maintain a series of centers of desertion, or poles of secession, of rallying points. For runaways. For those who leave. A series of places where we can escape from the influence of a civilization that is headed for the abyss." -Tiqqun, Call
I'm still waiting for you to tell myself and everyone here why it's okay to enact bigoted laws to cover up the murdering of political dissidents.
Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand. ~ Karl Marx
formerly Triceramarx
It was an time a long ago. Morals were different.
However I do think that those particular policies of Stalin were wrong and/or miss leaded. But over the years people learn and people know. And when a Marxist-Leninist Government is established such laws will not be created.
i.e. Past Marxist-Leninist countries didn't make such laws.
And on another note it wasn't about birth rates
Yes, we want to make your wife a radical feminist lesbian, we want to forcibly gay marry you to a leatherclad bear, we want to send your kids into white slavery at the court of a black communist dictator, we want to paint your church red with the blood of christian babies, we want to set fire to your ikea and your SUV, we want to rape your labrador with the broken pieces of your white picketed fence.
We want to wage nuclear war on the nuclear family.
why? because we are pinko freedom hating commienazi atheist bastards, its just what we do.
~psycho
I don't buy the 'morals were different' argument, but I'm glad that you condemn Stalin's actions.It was an time a long ago. Morals were different.
However I do think that those particular policies of Stalin were wrong and/or miss leaded. But over the years people learn and people know. And when a Marxist-Leninist Government is established such laws will not be created.
i.e. Past Marxist-Leninist countries didn't make such laws.
And on another note it wasn't about birth rates
formerly Triceramarx
Riveting argument.It was an time a long ago. Morals were different.
If you said the same thing about any other sort of despot you'd get restricted.
It was done mainly out of ignorance at the time and still traditionally held views about homosexuality. It was often viewed as a "bourgeois decadence."
Even though this was a common viewpoint at the time, Stalin and the Soviet government were still wrong to implement such a law.
We should seek to understand the times in which this law was enacted and the world at said time, but we shouldn't defend it.
"If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything." - Malcolm X
yo but years prior the state's line was officially 'what goes on in the bedroom is private'.
i don't think the 'it was a different time' thing flies, honestly.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
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