Why was homosexuality illegal in the Soviet Union during the Stalin era?

[Zav]

He was a socially conservative prick. To be fair though, that was the '30s, and in context it isn't as reactionary.

[seventeethdecember2016]

The answer was to increase the population of the SU. It was also looked at as a Bourgeois activity- as absurd as that may sound. It wasn't banned until the Great Purge, which means they were considered a reasonable threat to the stability of the Soviet state.
Keep in mind, this happened in the 1930s. Homosexuality was illegal far beyond Stalin's era, all the way to the fall. It is something to say that Stalin was the first to implant this, but it is another thing to say that it was kept enforced long after Stalin.
This shows that most people agreed that Homosexuals should be punished.

I believe the Trotskyists supported LGBT, as I've read something from 4th International that suggested that.

Here's the really short answer: Stalin was a homophobe.

That's just a speculation to be honest.

[Thirsty Crow]

Should it be legal?

Come on now, drug addicts should be more legal than the homosexuals.

It's not so easy to tell whether this is irony in poor taste or actual opinion.

Anyway, there's a huge hole in this whole context and product of times argument. The Bolshevik Party in 1917 was also a product of its times, and somehow managed to lift the ban on homosexuality imposed by the Tsarist regime. Now, in what way then did the Party in Stalin's time differ from that of 1917 who abolished the illegal status of homosexuality?

That's just a speculation to be honest.

Yeah, it's speculation since fearing that homosexuals represent a veritable threat to the Soviet state is nothing like homophobia.

You people are just unbelievable.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

By Marx's Beard! what one reads here.... Have you never heard of Marx's wise quote that Each man is prisoner of his time, and the weight of past generations weigh on him like a rock'. Not perfectly quoted, but, marxists are the most progressive and scientific political affiliates. That said, Castro mentioned this in some interview and don't forget that homosexuality had been completely self-suppressed for fear of societal alienation in history and only really became a social issue in the latter half of the 20th century. 'Man is a prisoner of his time'

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Should it be legal?

Come on now, drug addicts should be more legal than the homosexuals.

You're either being sarcastic or you're a reactionary.

[Deicide]

Because if decadent homosexuals were allowed to marry, sissiness would infect the soviet man like a virus and the USSR would lose WW2. But of course that's what the Trotskyite revisionists wanted.

Is this guy being serious? Surely.. this is the sort of vileness you'd expect from a nazi's filthy sewer..

[#FF0000]

Should it be legal?

Come on now, drug addicts should be more legal than the homosexuals.

Woah how'd everyone miss this gem until just now?

EDIT: on topic real quick, I am pretty sure homesexuality being banned again had nothing to do with Stalin. The law was signed by folks in the supreme soviet but not Stalin, for what that's worth.

[seventeethdecember2016]

Yeah, it's speculation since fearing that homosexuals represent a veritable threat to the Soviet state is nothing like homophobia.

You people are just unbelievable.

Your not making rational arguments. It is not great dissent, it is not unusual to see a brief period of injustices as the government tries to quell the unrest. Once this was over, there was little reason to retract the law as LGBTs were part of the unrest. The law was kept as a way to quell future uprisings, if they were to occur.

There is a certain point that I'm going to point out that will change the outlook of this. Even though Homosexuality was punishable with up to 5 years of hard labor, it was rarely enforced. It was only enforced as a smoke-screen law to punish dissidence.

[Sir Comradical]

Is this guy being serious? Surely.. this is the sort of vileness you'd expect from a nazi's filthy sewer..

Fear not, next time I'll lay on a much thicker coat of sarcasm.

[Ismail]

Early Marxists tended to associate homosexuality with degeneracy, simply because, even though they cast aside religion, there were still plenty of prejudices. Hence why Engels commented to Marx that they were "lucky" too old to have to pay "physical tribute to the victors" in the future society where homosexuality was legal.

Before Stalin's clique rose to power the bolsheviks had some pretty fucked views about homosexuality but it was a conscious decision to make it legal, i mention this only to preempt the inevitable apologism to come of 'the bolsheviks didn't really make homosexuality legal they just abolished the czarist legal code'

"[Soviet legislation] declares the absolute non-interference of the state and society into sexual matters, so long as nobody is injured and no one’s interests are encroached upon. Concerning homosexuality, sodomy, and various other forms of sexual gratification, which are set down in European legislation as offences against morality--Soviet legislation treats these exactly as so-called 'natural' intercourse. All forms of sexual intercourse are private matters." - Dr. Grigorii Batkis (director Moscow Institute of Social Hygiene), The Sexual Revolution in Russia, 1923. [Emphasis in original]

That doesn't invalidate the fact that yeah, they simply abolished the Tsarist legal code. A pamphlet by a professor doesn't mean that homosexuality was recognized as equal before the law, just that it wasn't a criminal act because there was nothing in penal law about it being such. All the Soviet government had to do was amend the penal code and bam, homosexual acts became illegal again.

Also, to answer another guy in the thread, restricting abortion was done to increase the population, not restricting homosexuality. The position on homosexuals wasn't "damn you gay people, put your penises where it counts," it was "we must find these homosexuals and arrest them for posing serious harm to children and for generally being involved in anti-Soviet activities."

Obviously such views reflect prejudice, but that is indeed how the vast majority of people across the world thought 70 years ago.

Now, in what way then did the Party in Stalin's time differ from that of 1917 who abolished the illegal status of homosexuality?

Well, considering that abortion was explicitly legalized while being called an "evil" that socialism would eventually render unnecessary, I assume people were disappointed that gays didn't stop being gay. I don't think homosexuality somehow represented an obstacle that the "Stalinist bureaucracy" had to illegalize in order to assume total control over anything. Trotsky never mentioned the illegalization of homosexuality (though he did have many justified words against restricting abortion), and at any rate the GDR (a "deformed worker's state" according to Trots) apparently decriminalized homosexual acts in the late 60's/early 70's, which fits with it being the most "Westernized" of the Eastern Bloc states.

Meanwhile in Albania male homosexuals were seen as the horrible exploiters of women in tribal regions while lesbians were seen as a reaction to that, thus male homosexuality was outlawed while lesbianism was explicitly not illegal (and this was mentioned in the penal code, no less) on the basis of "positive discrimination" in order to put an end to centuries of inequality between men and women. So yeah, different times and all that.

[The Jay]

Your not making rational arguments. It is not great dissent, it is not unusual to see a brief period of injustices as the government tries to quell the unrest. Once this was over, there was little reason to retract the law as LGBTs were part of the unrest. The law was kept as a way to quell future uprisings, if they were to occur.

There is a certain point that I'm going to point out that will change the outlook of this. Even though Homosexuality was punishable with up to 5 years of hard labor, it was rarely enforced. It was only enforced as a smoke-screen law to punish dissidence.

That only makes him look worse, using bigotry to oppress dissent as well as homosexuals. I'm not sure if you're defending his actions or explaining them because you're making him look very very bad.

[Leftsolidarity]

Should it be legal?

Come on now, drug addicts should be more legal than the homosexuals.

It seems like most people missed this one....

[seventeethdecember2016]

That only makes him look worse, using bigotry to oppress dissent as well as homosexuals. I'm not sure if you're defending his actions or explaining them because you're making him look very very bad.

I feel like your just naive. Tell me, should we have the revolution and have it destroyed or distorted every few decades due to a few self righteous Liberals, or Trotskyists, or etc.(not saying that these Homosexuals were any of these.)
If it was banned after years of being allowed, you can imagine that they were a reasonable threat to the stability of the state.

[Leftsolidarity]

I feel like your just naive. Tell me, should we have the revolution and have it destroyed or distorted every few decades due to a few self righteous Liberals, or Trotskyists, or etc.(not saying that these Homosexuals were any of these.)
If it was banned after years of being allowed, you can imagine that they were a reasonable threat to the stability of the state.

What? Are you saying that homosexuals were a threat to the Soviet state? That's fucking ridiculous.

[The Jay]

I feel like your just naive. Tell me, should we have the revolution and have it destroyed or distorted every few decades due to a few self righteous Liberals, or Trotskyists, or etc.(not saying that these Homosexuals were any of these.)
If it was banned after years of being allowed, you can imagine that they were a reasonable threat to the stability of the state.

How could people deciding who to have sex with have anything to do with the state? Tell me, really. I'm dying to know how it's anyone's business. Also, it's nice to know that whenever someone disagrees with you, all you have to do is call them a liberal and everything they say can be ignored.

[Dzo Komunjara]

Stalin did his best in this case.

People lost their moral in this world long time ago. So you don't care if that happens one more time. There will always be mutants that cannot be called human being. First, racists than nationalists, than homo/bisexuals, than transgenders.. and so on.

The most residual states are really good about it. One of good points, and there come you liberals to free them like in Libya. I'm sure that there in some 20-30 years of American influence, gays will show up.

[SinoRebel]

Stalin was only a pseudo-communist, let's not forget that. He was authoritarian and even pandered to Russian nationalism (which is ironic considering his Georgian ancestry). I would even call him a semi-Fascist masquerading as a communist, ignoring his economic views that is.

[Red Rabbit]

That's just a speculation to be honest.

Not sure how wanting to ban homosexuality is anything but homophobic.

I feel like your just naive. Tell me, should we have the revolution and have it destroyed or distorted every few decades due to a few self righteous Liberals, or Trotskyists, or etc.(not saying that these Homosexuals were any of these.)
If it was banned after years of being allowed, you can imagine that they were a reasonable threat to the stability of the state.

Are you seriously supporting the ban?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Even if - and this is a massive, improbable if - the Bolshevik banning of homosexuality was a product of its times and we viewed it as such, then what are we to say about the hordes of Marxist-Leninists today who do not utterly condemn the banning of homosexuality today?

It's not good enough to just say 'it was a product of its time'. Rarely do people like Ismail actually focus on the horrendous prejudice of anti-gay legislation, they simply focus on defending their darling Stalin.

It's pathetic, backward and encapsulates so well why the views of people like Ismail are becoming so irrelevant, unpopular and out of touch with the wider working class.

[Ismail]

Even if - and this is a massive, improbable if - the Bolshevik banning of homosexuality was a product of its times and we viewed it as such,

Why is it a "massive, improbable if"? What gay rights movement existed in Russia? What Russian communist supported gay rights at the time? Chicherin, who if I recall correctly was the only notable gay Bolshevik, apparently spent some time in the 20's "relaxing" at institutions designed to help with mental health problems (probably due both to stress in-re his job and the perceived need to "cure" his "illness") and obviously wasn't open about his homosexuality.

then what are we to say about the hordes of Marxist-Leninists today who do not utterly condemn the banning of homosexuality today?

It's not good enough to just say 'it was a product of its time'. Rarely do people like Ismail actually focus on the horrendous prejudice of anti-gay legislation, they simply focus on defending their darling Stalin.

I was unaware of Marxist-Leninists anywhere in the West (as groups, not one or two guys) endorsing anti-gay legislation. You can find Marxist-Leninists in Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, or Asia holding such views, but of course you'd apparently deny that's because their cultures tend to be more socially conservative than Europe and North America.

It's pathetic, backward and encapsulates so well why the views of people like Ismail are becoming so irrelevant, unpopular and out of touch with the wider working class.

Yes, because apparently the masses of workers of the USA and Europe are demanding that Marxist-Leninists account for Stalin's government criminalizing homosexuality 76 years ago.

Last I heard the American Party of Labor is run by a gay guy. PSL is avowedly supportive of LGBT rights, ditto with the CPUSA, FRSO and WWP. The only "Stalinist" party I know of that was still homophobic into the 21st century was the RCPUSA, but it dropped homophobia shortly after. Besides, Trot parties have had a rather checkered past on this issue as well. E.g. apparently Tim Wohlforth, then a leading member of what would become the SEP, spoke in the 70's that, "The working class hates hippies, faggots and women's libbers, and so do we!"