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Wouldit be so bad to give the 'An-Caps' what they want?
Right, hear me out:
Absolutely, communism can only be built worlkdwide, capitalism must be defeated everywhere; but...
Can we not just agree to give them somewhere where they can all live together on their own and have their 'An-Cap' paradise? Surely we don't need every bit of the Earth? Obviously, we will get the vast majorirty, but if there are say 5000 die-hard 'An-Caps', would it not be easier to ask the population of Easter Island to come and live somewhere else, take of the statues and any other culturally-significant stuff for the rest of the human race, and give the island to the 'An-Caps'? They could set up their little corporate theocracies and slave communities and whatever else they liked, and in 40 years when they'd wiped each other out and died of starvation because no-one would do any work, we could take it back over again?
Would that really be so bad?
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Aren't the Dry Tortugas uninhabited? IMO it is an ok idea with the proviso that the island be uninhabited as it would be grossly unjust to require anyone to leave home just for the An-caps?
I did say 'ask' if they'd leave. The reason I'm thinking Easter Island is that's the most remote part of anywhere. They'd be hard pushed to bother the rest of us from there.
We could I suppose put them somewhere that 'Isn't Going to Flood because Global Warming is a Myth'.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Ok, but they can't reproduce. We can't allow children to grow up in such conditions.
"All immediatists [. . .] want to get rid of society and put in its place a particular group of workers. This group they choose from the confines of one of the various prisons which constitute the bourgeois society of 'free men' i.e. the factory, the trade, the territorial or legal patch. Their entire miserable effort consists in telling the non-free, the non-citizens, the non-individuals [. . .] to envy and imitate their oppressors: be independent! free! be citizens! people! In a word: be bourgeois!" -Amadeo Bordiga, "Fundamentals of Revolutionary Communism"
Harsh.
Can we not kidnap their children? With... shiney ladders up to rainbow-coloured helicopters, or something?
EDIT: No, you're probably right. Sterilise them and send them to Easter Island... but what if they already had children? We can't in good conscience break up families, can we? And we can't send the children to Easter Island where they'll just become sex-slaves of the warlords. So what's the answer?
It can't just be 'shoot the 'An-Caps' in the head', that's no better a solution than letting them go and live on Easter Island without their kids.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Try sending me to a reservation and I'll go V for Vendetta on that ass. Imperialist bullshit is what that is.
Well, it seems like your choices would be, fight against the revolution and probably get shot, support the revolution and live under communism, or work to establish an 'An-Cap' society. I keep getting told that it's fine, 'An-Caps' and Communists can live on the same world if you can do what you do and we can do what we do. So I'm looking for a way that might happen.
Don't look on it as a reservation, look on it as asylum, the last haven of non-communism if it makes you feel better.
Unless of course you mean 'hell no I don't want to live with 'An-Caps', they're assholes' in which case, yeah, I see your point.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Night Ripper; this is a Leftist forum. Are you surprised that your "rugged individualism" doesn't fit the perspectives of this community? As a Luxemburgian my general approach is democratic, although in the event of social revolution the days of "rugged individualism" would be over, preferably democratically but by whatever means necessary. It 's called workers' democracy, not imperialism.
I'm already going to die. I'd rather die resisting forced relocation. However, there will be no communist revolution because only lunatics are even comfortable talking about genocide. You wont see any "exterminate the commies" talk from me. My ideology allows for yours to exist. We will win the war of ideas not bullets.
You could go wander around on your own devoid of human contact, if that sounds better to you. Seems more in line with "rugged individualism."
Who said anything about genocide?
We suggest allowing you and your fellow an-caps to form your ideal dystopian society on an island somewhere and suddenly we're genocidal imperialists. I think we're being pretty generous if you ask me.
"All immediatists [. . .] want to get rid of society and put in its place a particular group of workers. This group they choose from the confines of one of the various prisons which constitute the bourgeois society of 'free men' i.e. the factory, the trade, the territorial or legal patch. Their entire miserable effort consists in telling the non-free, the non-citizens, the non-individuals [. . .] to envy and imitate their oppressors: be independent! free! be citizens! people! In a word: be bourgeois!" -Amadeo Bordiga, "Fundamentals of Revolutionary Communism"
Ah, OK, so you'd live under communism. Fine, no problem, I don't think we need make any special arrangements then.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
do anarcho-capitalists even have any ideas regarding how to realize an an-cap society? or how to abolish the state? One time I debated with an anarcho-capitalist and I asked him how his ideal system would be realized, and he said by "winning the intellectual debate", or something..
"I'm anti-Republican and Democratic / if they self destruct that's anti-climactic"
No. An-cap socities will allow you to form communes but you can't force others to join. I will refuse to join but you can have at it. You won't even be forced to move.
The same way slavery was abolished. Society will change and people will vote down laws, return to the constitution and then that too will be replaced.
So rendering the state unprofitable, gotcha.
"All immediatists [. . .] want to get rid of society and put in its place a particular group of workers. This group they choose from the confines of one of the various prisons which constitute the bourgeois society of 'free men' i.e. the factory, the trade, the territorial or legal patch. Their entire miserable effort consists in telling the non-free, the non-citizens, the non-individuals [. . .] to envy and imitate their oppressors: be independent! free! be citizens! people! In a word: be bourgeois!" -Amadeo Bordiga, "Fundamentals of Revolutionary Communism"
Dear Night Ripper,
Why do you oppose communism? Most of the posts of yours I have seen have been short once sentence replies or things talking about anarcho-capitalism with nothing clear on why you oppose communism.
And what about when your community comes into conflict with ours?
Oh, no wait, there's no reason why they should. When you come to our communities, because you believe you have to pay for things, we'll let you, and when we come to yours, because we don't believe we have to pay for things, we won't. Simple.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
I assume you mean slavery in the US, because slavery hasn't been "abolished", it still exists in many different forms in many parts of the world. how will people "vote down laws" when common people don't have a say in lawmaking? and who will replace the constitution?
"I'm anti-Republican and Democratic / if they self destruct that's anti-climactic"
Anarcho-capitalism cannot work because we know that the state exists because of classes and the stratification of society. The "capitalism" part of "anarcho-capitalism" will retain classes, thus making the "anarcho-" part invalid. Just make a space colony for them and soon the normal people back on Earth will forget to send them oxygen.
I oppose abolishing private property rights without consent. That's theft as far as I'm concerned. If you can get people to join you voluntarily I truly wish you happiness and the best of luck.
