Thread: Our attitude towards soldiers?

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  1. #1
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    Default Our attitude towards soldiers?

    I recently read an article by an ex-US soldier turned PMC about the nature of video games that depict war. He claimed that most media portrayals of the military are silly not because they belittle the heroes, but because most men in the armed forces are unapologetic sociopaths.

    He went into detail about how most soldiers care little about the violence they inflict. There was one gut-wrenching example of a man forgetting that he had accidentally killed a woman and child while in pursuit of an insurgent. He concluded that the reason many ex-soldiers become PMC is because violence is what they're good at. They care very little about politics or nations. They simply want to make more money at what they're good at.

    Previously, I had the attitude of "Love the soldiers, hate the politicians," but that seems to be out-of-date. During WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and others, a majority of soldiers were working men drafted out of their homes, but nowadays you voluntarily sign up for service. Should we extend our sympathies to the members of the armed forces who were tricked by capitalist propaganda to believe that they were fighting for democracy, instead hating the system that turned them into murderers, or should we condemn them for putting themselves at the disposal of imperialism in the first place?
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    Well, in a revolution, who's side do you want them on?
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    Well, in a revolution, who's side do you want them on?
    Obviously we'd need their firepower, but I don't know if I want people who take pride in their violent nature and don't give a shit about politics to be a part of the revolution.

    Maybe someone can enlighten me. That's just my viewpoint for now.
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    Soldiers are isolated from the rest of society, and are encouraged to have the sort of mentality you're referring to, and then held up as unquestionable heroes by popular culture.

    Its not so much that they honestly love violence or anything in most cases, but it is true that its what they know/are good at.

    Plus there is the issue, that as a soldier, to actually acknowledge that what you're doing is bad/wrong is extremely painful, and if you come to the conclusion that war is wrong, or to revolutionary conclusions, you're essentially guaranteed to develop mental problems, like PTSD.
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    I recently read an article by an ex-US soldier turned PMC about the nature of video games that depict war. He claimed that most media portrayals of the military are silly not because they belittle the heroes, but because most men in the armed forces are unapologetic sociopaths.

    He went into detail about how most soldiers care little about the violence they inflict. There was one gut-wrenching example of a man forgetting that he had accidentally killed a woman and child while in pursuit of an insurgent. He concluded that the reason many ex-soldiers become PMC is because violence is what they're good at. They care very little about politics or nations. They simply want to make more money at what they're good at.

    Previously, I had the attitude of "Love the soldiers, hate the politicians," but that seems to be out-of-date. During WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and others, a majority of soldiers were working men drafted out of their homes, but nowadays you voluntarily sign up for service. Should we extend our sympathies to the members of the armed forces who were tricked by capitalist propaganda to believe that they were fighting for democracy, instead hating the system that turned them into murderers, or should we condemn them for putting themselves at the disposal of imperialism in the first place?
    Soldiers are in a very difficult position.

    On the one hand, they are the direct instrument of capitalism imperialism. They serve no other purpose than the open protection of the capitalist state, and the aggressive arm of that state when it seeks to further itself materially.

    On the other hand, most don't know this or don't care. Most join due to lack of options, possible monetary rewards, inflated notions of honor and service, etc... The entire bourgeois state is aimed at making people want to serve in the army.

    So we oppose the army because it is a capitalist army.
    But we understand that the soldier most likely feels forced into their situation due to external circumstances.

    - August
    If we have no business with the construction of the future or with organizing it for all time, there can still be no doubt about the task confronting us at present: the ruthless criticism of the existing order, ruthless in that it will shrink neither from its own discoveries, nor from conflict with the powers that be.
    - Karl Marx
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  10. #6
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    The problem with the military is the superiority complex.
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    There is also a difference that we can see among soldier, regarding if youre in miltary service thats mandatory compared too a specialised organization which rely on recruting and volunteers. Where the first menthioned is more likly to support the people in case of a revolution. We have seen that in China 89, during the big protests on Tiananmen square, where the regular soldiers didnt want to hurt theire nrothers and sister, so the regime had to take some specialized, brainwashed, forces who commited the massacre. Almost the same happend in Rumania 89, and we saw the same thing last spring in the uprising in the arab world.

    When the military is integrated with the rest of society it doesnt start to 'live its own life' so to speak. With own values and ideas, an other exampel is Venezuela where most soldiers and low ranking officers sides with Chavez since he fight for them and theire families (workers and peasents).
    "You know what capitalism is? Getting fucked!" - Tony Montana, Scarface.
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    The problem with the military is the superiority complex.
    This. All too many times have I been told that im shit because I never served, and I never will be able too.



    Even went as far as to have been told only those who were in the military should be allowed to vote, etc.
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    The soldier is the victim of the national state, where what is right or wrong is determined by the policies of the state, hence, in one situation the soldier may be fighting a just war against fascism, in another, he or she may be carrying out the imperial policies of the state.
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    This. All too many times have I been told that im shit because I never served, and I never will be able too.



    Even went as far as to have been told only those who were in the military should be allowed to vote, etc.
    Just look at what perks are offered to those in the military. When i was in the service my airline baggage fees were waived, when my sister was in she was allowed to bypass security and to this day if either of us hint at our prior service we recieve thanks. The fact is one doesnt need to wear a uniform to be a soldier.
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    The soldier is the victim of the national state, where what is right or wrong is determined by the policies of the state, hence, in one situation the soldier may be fighting a just war against fascism, in another, he or she may be carrying out the imperial policies of the state.
    Bollocks, the fact is you need to have your convictions squared away before you enlist. Those in the military may have been victims of the circumstances that have driven them to enlist however once theyve embraced that superiority complex theyre just another tool of oppression. The military is not unlike a sports team or the police, you protect your own, right or wrong.
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    Just look at what perks are offered to those in the military. When i in the service my airline baggage fees were waived, when my sister was in she was allowed to bypass security and to this day if i slip up and hint at my prior service i recieve thanks. The fact is one doesnt need to wear a uniform to be a soldier.
    If we're gonna talk about the perks, I think its more important to mention things like health care and education benefits.

    Not shorter lines at the airport (which certainly doesn't apply now, I dunno when you were in).
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  19. #13
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    One of my old co-workers was an Iraq vet and my grandfather is a Vietnam vet and they're the sweetest people ever. It's not on a personal level that we oppose them, but on a structural one.
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    IMO, we should treat them with a kind heart (if they aren't jerks). We will catch more flies with honey. The kids I know will go to the military because they wish to serve. I don't believe enough of them are educated on what they're serving. We should try to give them something else to serve.
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  23. #15
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    One of my old co-workers was an Iraq vet and my grandfather is a Vietnam vet and they're the sweetest people ever. It's not on a personal level that we oppose them, but on a structural one.
    I mean, I'm far from one of the "sweetest people ever", but I certainly don't take pleasure in my past military service. And very few people are glad to have taken lives, but see it as "regrettably necessary" or some other sort of justification. Because otherwise, they'd have to say "I killed people for corporate profits".
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    Turn the guns on your "superiors."
    Save a species, have ginger babies!

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein
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  26. #17
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    Cmoney-the last sentence of your post reminded me of an old quote from a former Marine Corps general, Smedley Butler.

    Realpolitik requires that we win over a substantial portion of the rank-and-file military lest we suffer the fate of the German Spartacists. This can be accomplished IMO since most young persons who enlist in the US military do so either from a desire to "serve" or even more often from a lack of opportunity. We must divide the enlisted ranks of the military from the officer corps.
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    If we're gonna talk about the perks, I think its more important to mention things like health care and education benefits.

    Not shorter lines at the airport (which certainly doesn't apply now, I dunno when you were in).
    Well those are the obvious ones, i was hoping i wasnt going to have to point out the obvious.
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    A good friend of mine is joining the USMC next year, and they really do think they're serving a good cause. They've said that what inspires them to join is "spreading free speech" to others. I've brought up the point that the military can be abusive of civilians in other nations, and they seem to be under the belief that this is uncommon and usually punished.

    I think most soldiers are like this, and really do think they're fighting for the freedom of others, and as such I don't think it's fair to dismiss them all as terrible people.
    "It is not history which uses men as a means of achieving - as if it were an individual person - its own ends. History is nothing but the activity of men in pursuit of their ends."
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    Well, in all fairness, the rationalizations that they're essentially forced to make, in order to account for their actions, do tend to make them into rather shitty people.

    The other thing is that war really sucks, like, really bad. And it fucks with your psyche, and after you experience it, part of you never wants to see it again, but at the same time, you always feel like something is missing from your life. Thats why lots of soldiers will say that they hated being in Iraq or Afghanistan, but at the same time, be anxious to go back.

    Its a difficult thing to describe, and I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that still itches for it.
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