Portuguese Comunist Party (Marxist-Leninist) rejects homosexual child adoption

[Dogs On Acid]

All the Communist Party MP's voted against the two proposals by the Left-Bloc (a left wing coalition) and the Greens.

Their argument: "this situation hasn't been debated and sedimented enough in society yet".

Link (in portuguese)

[Q]

How incredibly backward of a "communist" party.

Having said that, I know fairly little about this party, other than that they have 58k members (out of a population of 10.5 million), that they have 14 seats in a 230 seat parliament and are a "Marxist-Leninist" party.

What does this mean in the context of wider Portuguese society? Is the gay movement strong? How influential is the Catholic church still?

[Dogs On Acid]

How incredibly backward of a "communist" party.

I'm very disappointed.

Having said that, I know fairly little about this party, other than that they have 58k members (out of a population of 10.5 million), that they have 14 seats in a 230 seat parliament and are a "Marxist-Leninist" party.

Second strongest communist party in the European Union, behind KKE, if I'm not mistaken.

What does this mean in the context of wider Portuguese society?

Portuguese society is quite reactionary as a general rule. The newer generations are a lot more open minded though.

Is the gay movement strong?

Not very, unfortunately.

How influential is the Catholic church still?

As an institution, not very, although the right-wing parties are very Christian, as is most of the Portuguese population, but as I said before, the newer generations are more open-minded, and most youngsters don't give a toss about religion.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Do you know whether the Portuguese Social Democratic party and the PSP support the PCP position? Since the Social Democrats are in the government I would surmise that they share the reactionary policy of the PCP on this issue, but what is the position of the PSP? I would hope that the Left Bloc does not support the reactionary position of the PCP?

[l'Enfermé]

Historically, Communist Parties don't really have a long tradition of supporting homosexual child adoption, especially "Marxist-Leninist" parties. Or a short tradition. Or any tradition. Especially in Portugal. I'm not sure if it's good for the mental health of the child myself, though one can't deny that gay parents is much better than no parents at all.

[Dogs On Acid]

Do you know whether the Portuguese Social Democratic party and the PSP support the PCP position? Since the Social Democrats are in the government I would surmise that they share the reactionary policy of the PCP on this issue, but what is the position of the PSP? I would hope that the Left Bloc does not support the reactionary position of the PCP?

PSP? Did you mean PS? Partido Socialista (Socialist Party), a Social Democratic party that has 2nd most seats in parliment?

If so, then they nearly unanimously supported gay adoption (!), along with the Left Bloc and the Greens.

The PSD, Partido Social Democrata (Social Democrat Party), a Neo-Liberal party, nearly unanimously rejected it.

I know the names are confusing, but the Socialist Party is not Socialist, it is Social Democratic, and the Social Democratic Party is Neoliberal, not Social Democratic

I found the PCP's decision very reactionary, and the PS's very progressive for the party they are.

[Dogs On Acid]

Historically, Communist Parties don't really have a long tradition of supporting homosexual child adoption, especially "Marxist-Leninist" parties. Or a short tradition. Or any tradition. Especially in Portugal. I'm not sure if it's good for the mental health of the child myself, though one can't deny that gay parents is much better than no parents at all.

Are you serious?

Do you think that communal upbringing of children is bad for their mental health, just because it doesn't respect the instituted Male/Female upbringing? Because that's what most communists aim for.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I can't imagine why being adopted by gay parents would jeopardize the child's mental health. I spent ten years working with people living with mental illnesses and to my experience dysfunctionality in the family may be an issue but not the sexual orientation of the parents. To my experience real problems exist in the foster family system and allowing gay couples to adopt would clearly be in the best interests of the potential adoptees. Then there is also the fact that gay couples have IMO a basic human right to adopt children.

[Sasha]

PSP? Did you mean PS? Partido Socialista (Socialist Party), a Social Democratic party that has 2nd most seats in parliment?

If so, then they nearly unanimously supported gay adoption (!), along with the Left Bloc and the Greens.

The PSD, Partido Social Democrata (Social Democrat Party), a Neo-Liberal party, nearly unanimously rejected it.

I know the names are confusing, but the Socialist Party is not Socialist, it is Social Democratic, and the Social Democratic Party is Neoliberal, not Social Democratic

here it is exactly the same, the Socialistische Partij is social dem, the PvdA (labour party) lefter to the center-right than the conservative-liberal neo-liberal

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Not surprising that a ML party would take that stance. Part of Stalin's political baggage was making homosexuality illegal in the USSR after the Bolsheviks had done away with such reactionary laws. Stalinism and it's ML kin, often have reactionary views on the nuclear family and homosexuality. It is most unfortunate. And Comrade Borz, there is research that strongly suggests there is no significant difference in mental health outcomes for children reared by heterosexual or homosexual parents.

[Dogs On Acid]

here it is exactly the same, the Socialistische Partij is social dem, the PvdA (labour party) lefter to the center-right than the conservative-liberal neo-liberal

I've always thought "left-wing themed" party names are a way of gaining popularity from the working class.

[GoddessCleoLover]

DogsonAcid; Thanks for your response. I was aware that the Social Democrats were a neo-liberal party, and therefore am disappointed but not surprised at their position. The fact that the PSP is to the left of the PCP on this issue indicates IMO that the PCP is trying to pander to cultural conservatism. Apparently the Left Bloc did poorly in the last parliamentary elections, but I hope that they take a progressive position on this issue.

[Dogs On Acid]

Not surprising that a ML party would take that stance. Part of Stalin's political baggage was making homosexuality illegal in the USSR after the Bolsheviks had done away with such reactionary laws. Stalinism and it's ML kin, often have reactionary views on the nuclear family and homosexuality. It is most unfortunate. And Comrade Borz, there is research that strongly suggests there is no significant difference in mental health outcomes for children reared by heterosexual or homosexual parents.

Well they did support gay marriage, and there was me believing the Central Committee was progressive and all...

[Q]

Well they did support gay marriage, and there was me believing the Central Committee was progressive and all...

So, why the difference in regards to child adoption?

[Dogs On Acid]

DogsonAcid; Thanks for your response. I was aware that the Social Democrats were a neo-liberal party, and therefore am disappointed but not surprised at their position. The fact that the PSP is to the left of the PCP on this issue indicates IMO that the PCP is trying to pander to cultural conservatism. Apparently the Left Bloc did poorly in the last parliamentary elections, but I hope that they take a progressive position on this issue.

It's PS, not PSP PSP is the name for police in Portugal.

The Left-Bloc did poorly partially because many of their voters saw the right-wing as a threat and voted on the centre-left PS to counterbalance the situation. I find this instinctive tactic quite futile and sometimes counterproductive to be honest.

[Connolly Was There1916]

That is an absolute disgrace in my opinion.

[Dogs On Acid]

So, why the difference in regards to child adoption?

I spoke to one of my "higher ranking" (one of the reasons I hate Democratic Centralism) comrades in the party, he said that "we can't just throw these ideas into society and expect acceptance, we need to take it slowly".

I find that either:

- A bullshit reformist tactic by a so called "revolutionary" party.
- Or just bullshit.

[Sasha]

I've always thought "left-wing themed" party names are a way of gaining popularity from the working class.

nah, its just that as originally really radical social democratic parties become more centrist/less radical/more bourgeois they leave a void that its only natural for ML parties who are trying to become a mass party to fill.
the PvdA back in the day when they where still called the SDAP (social democratic workers party) even attempted to pull a revolution in 1918.
at least in europe the recipe is pretty much the same i guess, in the netherlands it went:
socialist movement conected to the first international splits in parlementairy faction (SDAP) and anti-parlementairy free socialists/anarchist (SDB-domela nieuwenhuis) social-democrats are then still radical until sooner or later the marxists split off (SDP = future CPN), then after WW2 they merge with progresive christians and democrats into Labour (PvdA).
over time the party drifts further and further away from social democracy the void is then filled by (splinters of) the CP thats also through their parlemtairism are drifting to the center/right in the same speed but since they started more to the left it takes longer to get there. (here the CPN and later its remnants/splinters Green Left and Socialist Party, the latter being the maoist splinter of the CP)

[Dogs On Acid]

nah, its just that as originally really radical social democratic parties become more centrist/less radical/more bourgeois they leave a void that its only natural for ML parties who are trying to become a mass party to fill.
the PvdA back in the day when they where still called the SDAP (social democratic workers party) even attempted to pull a revolution in 1918.
at least in europe the recipe is pretty much the same i guess, in the netherlands it went:
socialist movement conected to the first international splits in parlementairy faction (SDAP) and anti-parlementairy free socialists/anarchist (SDB-domela nieuwenhuis) social-democrats are then still radical until sooner or later the marxists split off (SDP = future CPN), then after WW2 they merge with progresive christians and democrats into Labour (PvdA).
over time the party drifts further and further away from social democracy the void is then filled by (splinters of) the CP thats also through their parlemtairism are drifting to the center/right in the same speed but since they started more to the left it takes longer to get there. (here the CPN and later its remnants/splinters Green Left and Socialist Party, the latter being the maoist splinter of the CP)

So basically they change their ideas as they drift to the right, but don't bother to change their name?

[X5N]

Ah, one of those old guard communist parties, like the KKE.