Life on Europa?

[sypher]

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse
A radiation-driven ecosystem could exist in the ocean thought to lie beneath the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa, a scientist has suggested.

Ever since the Voyager spacecraft flew past the Jupiter system in the 1970's, astronomers have been fascinated by Europa and its bizarre striped surface and the prospects for primitive forms of life on the satellite.

But life needs energy. It has been suggested that on the floor of the suspected subterranean ocean there may be hydrothermal vents like those found on Earth.

These vents, which gush hot water and minerals, could provide both the energy and the food sources for primitive Europans.

Mighty Jupiter

However, some analyses of energy sources on Europa have been pessimistic saying that there may not be enough free-energy available to support life, or at least life as we know it.


Ice ridges on Europa - sites of life?

If Europa really does have an ocean, it lies beneath an ice layer that is too thick to permit photosynthesis to be a source of energy for life-forms.
Hydrothermal vents may or may not exist, but such ecology as exists on Earth depends largely on oxidants that filter down from the surface of the ocean and this would not happen on Europa.

In a new analysis, published in the journal Nature, Chris Chyba of the Seti (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) Institute in California suggests that charged sub-atomic particles that are swirled around Jupiter by its mighty magnetic field should interact with Europa's icy surface providing energy that primitive life-forms could tap.

Unusual colours

"Microbial life could exist in concentrations detectable by surface landers able to filter meltwater from Europa's ice," says Dr Chyba.

He suggests that Europa could have a radiation-driven ecosystem and has calculated the minimum amount of biomass in this ecosystem by comparing it to ecosystems on Earth. His estimate is 20 billion grams.

Microbial blooms could also occur wherever the ocean beneath the ice broke through. Dr Chyba suggests that any unusual colours detected on the surface of the moon may be an indicator of this.

So far, this is all speculation. These calculations provide a plausible argument for one of many possible types of charged-particle or radiation-driven ecosystem. But "only direct exploration," Dr Chyba concludes, "will reveal whether life on Europa actually exists."

Do you believe they will find traces of life on the icey moon? Personally I'd love to see it but, I am skepical

[crazy comie]

I think they might but i'm not sure.

[Soviet power supreme]

Well yes there can be but they wouldn't be like little green men.
So don't expect UFOs coming from there.

[The Children of the Revolution]

Well yes there can be but they wouldn't be like little green men.

Indeed. More like little green blobs. You might step on one and not know it...

If they decide to launch a mission to find out - what a waste of money! Spend the Billions it would cost on feeding the third world, not poking around looking for "life" resembling a small bogy...

Who cares?

[monkeydust]

I don't think its likely. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the main two scientific explanations for life on Earth are: a) microbes travelling on a comet or meteor
and b) Life being created out of some 'primordial soup', essentially inanimate particles gradually reacting in complex ways until they form primitve 'life' which evolves.

Anyhow my point is, I'm pretty sure a meteor or comet would not hit Europa, but instead be drawn to the immense gravity from Jupiter, even if it did not many comets could host bacteria. Secondly the likelihood of life arising out of such conditions seems to me tobe quite low. Still I may be wrong.

[Pete]

Lenin: remember that metorites and the such hit the moon, which revolves around the earth. Similar things could occur on any moon of any planet, even if most go to the mother planet.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by CrazyPete@Nov 21 2003, 09:13 PM
Lenin: remember that metorites and the such hit the moon, which revolves around the earth. Similar things could occur on any moon of any planet, even if most go to the mother planet.

Your right meteorites did hit the moon however although I'm not particularly knowledgable on this subject I'm pretty sure that most meteorites come from the asteroid belt, this is between Mars and Jupiter, as these will always if not in its orbit travel towards the sun, it seems more likely that they would hit the moon thatn Europa.

Secondly Jupiters size, mass and gravitational pull are immensely biger than that of Earth, europa is a much smaller percentage size of Jupiter than our moon is to Earth, very few meteors would collide with it.

Thirdly, I feel that there cannot be many meteors or comets bearing life, even if one collided with Europa how would this life (presumably bacteria) take hold in its climate.

[Iron Star]

Meteorites carried organic molecules to Earth not life. The Jovian moons have been struck by millions of meteorites in the past, just look at Callisto and Ganymede. Europa doesn't show any impact craters because of it's thin, icy, and relativly malleable crust. And Io doesn't show any craters because it's crust is constantly being recycled at a very high rate due to intense volcanic activity.

[crazy comie]

Europa acctually has pretty perfect conditions for the primordial soup idea to work

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by crazy comie@Nov 24 2003, 04:20 PM
Europa acctually has pretty perfect conditions for the primordial soup idea to work

I didn't think anyone knew what conditions were necessary for the primordial soup idea to work.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by The Children of the Revolution@Nov 21 2003, 07:22 PM
If they decide to launch a mission to find out - what a waste of money! Spend the Billions it would cost on feeding the third world, not poking around looking for "life" resembling a small bogy...

Who cares?

I CARE

I don't like this sort of attitude. If that had been the main feeling for all of humanity, we'd still be in trees picking bugs out of each other's fur. I don't want to touch your fur.

We must push on and out, making new friends and enemies and if we're alone, colonising and terraforming.
I like life, I think we should spread ourselves as far as possible across the universe.
I for one would find it reassuring if life was found on europa; that would mean life is common, and where you find life, you find interest, danger, entertainment, pleasure.

I could do with a Europan Tuna sandwhich right now...

[crazy comie]

It would have lots of heat gysers to provide energy and lots of water. It also probably has lots of minrels.

[The Children of the Revolution]

We must push on and out, making new friends and enemies and if we're alone, colonising and terraforming.
I like life, I think we should spread ourselves as far as possible across the universe.

Why? What on Earth (no pun intended) can space colonisation achieve? We would suffer the same problems as we do on Earth; corruption, greed, war, irritating bugs in our fur... The proliferation of capitalism into space? Whole new worlds to exploit? Does this not seem rather counter-productive to you? Better to sort out the problems here on Earth before spreading them across the galaxy...

Someone really has to develop an effective bug repellant too; I'm getting fed up with scratching...

[Soviet power supreme]

Yes Children of the revolution is nailing the point.
Why should we colonizise other planets when we haven't solved the problems here.

btw

Shouldn't it be a child instead of children.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Humans are imperfect. we must sort out our problems we have as best we can.
I'm just saying that when the entire world is communist, (A form of non-government that will solve a lot of the problems we have under capitalism) we should colonise and terraform the solar system as quickly as possible, exploiting it's vast resources to the full.
We should devote part of our resources to the construction of a colonisation vessel, which will be constructed in the orbit of pluto or one of the gaseous planets, and set it off in the direction of another solar system (we have already found several).
The vessel should pack terraformation equipment as well as people and the equipment and material needed to care for them over the generations.
The process of terraforming and colonisation will start again when the vessel reaches it's destination.
A new ship will be built and head on the next system and so on, until the entire galaxy (Or at least the bits we can terraform) is a communist paradise.

Just a long term plan, but it's still fun to talk about

But yes, we must solve the problems at home before we can make significant inroads to the solar system and the greater galaxy. I just hope it's soon

[crazy comie]

I think it would still be sensible to look for other life as it may help us understand our selfs better even if it is just some alge.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by NoXion@Nov 26 2003, 10:49 AM
Humans are imperfect. we must sort out our problems we have as best we can.
I'm just saying that when the entire world is communist, (A form of non-government that will solve a lot of the problems we have under capitalism) we should colonise and terraform the solar system as quickly as possible, exploiting it's vast resources to the full.
We should devote part of our resources to the construction of a colonisation vessel, which will be constructed in the orbit of pluto or one of the gaseous planets, and set it off in the direction of another solar system (we have already found several).
The vessel should pack terraformation equipment as well as people and the equipment and material needed to care for them over the generations.
The process of terraforming and colonisation will start again when the vessel reaches it's destination.
A new ship will be built and head on the next system and so on, until the entire galaxy (Or at least the bits we can terraform) is a communist paradise.

Just a long term plan, but it's still fun to talk about

But yes, we must solve the problems at home before we can make significant inroads to the solar system and the greater galaxy. I just hope it's soon

One part of me likes the idea of space colanisation, yet the vision you give here makes me feel uneasy. I don't think that we should terraform and explore planets to make use of their resources. We have enough here on earth for us all, if we use what we have efficiently and sustainably I would try to keep at least early space exploration to just that, exploration rather than 'using up' everything we have.

[Purple]

thanks to capitalism I think that we will exploid resources from other planets as fast as we can... that's just how it works in this world...

[The Children of the Revolution]

If you apply the ideas of Malthus (as put forward in his "Essays on the Principle of Population") here, a disturbing picture arises. No matter how far we expand, how much we colonise... Humanity is still doomed to extinction by overpopulation!

If a Revolution were to spread across the planet and a Communist World Government came to power... Then colonisation wouldn't be such a bad plan. The first step would be to construct a "space elevator" - which could be constructed fairly soon, I reckon. Then perhaps we could consider space exploration...

But I'd still stay here; Earth rules!

Shouldn't it be a child instead of children.

No Sir! For then my name would read "The Child of The Revolution". Whilst this may be slightly more accurate, I like to think that there are many 'Children' of the Revolution out there who share my views... (Or at least most of them) I am their spokesperson!

[crazy comie]

under marxism by education of the mases we could decrease growth rates. of population