4 NK Officials Killed

[Susurrus]

http://www.dailynk.com.nyud.net/engl...01500&num=8714

The source added, “There was a note found lying next to the body of the executed NSA official which said ‘Punished in the name of the people.’”...The likelihood seems to be that the murders were planned by somebody with a political motive rather than a personal grudge...For the time being North Korean authorities are proceeding under the assumption that it was an act of rebellion against the system instigated with outside help

[Shotgun Opera]

For the time being North Korean authorities are proceeding under the assumption that it was an act of rebellion against the system instigated with outside help

'Bout fuckin time.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Now I'll be waiting for a "Korean Spring" headline in the NY Times around March.

Then NATO will butt in and coopt it.

[Per Levy]

Now I'll be waiting for a "Korean Spring" headline in the NY Times around March.

Then NATO will butt in and coopt it.

that aint happen, china wont allow it.

would be interesting to hear/read from the people who done it. a leaflet or statement would be nice to get a better picture.

[Princess Luna]

that aint happen, china wont allow it.

would be interesting to hear/read from the people who done it. a leaflet or statement would be nice to get a better picture.

Even if the people who did this made some kind of leaflet or statement, North Korea would never release it or acknowledge it

[Shotgun Opera]

Now I'll be waiting for a "Korean Spring" headline in the NY Times around March.

Then NATO will butt in and coopt it.

I'd take that over the situation now and I'd wager most North Koreans would as well.

[kurr]

'Bout fuckin time.

Outside help being South Korea, you opportunist moron. What rational leftist would cheerlead a opposition movement spearheaded by Seoul and Washington?

[Agathor]

Seoul want South and North Korea re-united, which would be a tremendous achievement for everyone in the world except the commissar class in North Korea and all the creepy little Stalinist kids in the west who support them.

Capitalism has problems, but it's better than feudalism. And I think North Koreans would prefer a dozen MacDonalds branches to another famine.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Capitalism has problems, but it's better than feudalism. And I think North Koreans would prefer a dozen MacDonalds branches to another famine.

DPRK isn't feudalist. Sorry.

[Shotgun Opera]

Outside help being South Korea, you opportunist moron. What rational leftist would cheerlead a opposition movement spearheaded by Seoul and Washington?

A rational leftist that would rather see a Seoul/Washington headed government than one headed by people like Jong-il, if those are my only two choices.

South Korea may be a Capitalist stronghold but godsdammit it is at least marginally better than life in North Korea. Considering the conditions in North Korea, I think almost any scenario would be better. It'd certainly have to really strive to be worse.

And besides, you're over-estimating South Korea's interest in the North. The cheering on of reunification is not that earnest for one simple reason; South Korea doesn't want to have to PAY for North Korea. If the two were to merge tomorrow, Seoul would have a massive task on their hands, decades of trouble, billions upon billions of won to spend, and ~24 million people to care for who would basically have to be treated like refugees and many of which hate South Korea.

Yes, I'm sure many Koreans do genuinely want reunification, but the South Korean government is not exactly chomping at the bit to get it and I doubt they'd fall over themselves to take the country even if they could.

[#FF0000]

A rational leftist that would rather see a Seoul/Washington headed government than one headed by people like Jong-il, if those are my only two choices.

Wrong. Sorry.

[moneybags]

Hi

[Shotgun Opera]

Wrong. Sorry.

We have to be realistic and look at what can and will actually happen.

A revolution inside North Korea is probably not going to happen on its own, barring something truly momentous; communication is too difficult, the army is too large, people have been indoctrinated for too long, and frankly most North Koreans don't know any different kind of life.

A common feature of the Arab Spring revolutions was an effective communications medium and the influence of outside ideas and moral/direct support. Neither of which can be said North Korea has.

So what does that leave? Do we just sit and hope for lightning to strike in North Korea?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

A rational leftist that would rather see a Seoul/Washington headed government than one headed by people like Jong-il, if those are my only two choices.

Getting sold to a new master doesn't mean you're no longer a slave

[Rusty Shackleford]

We have to be realistic and look at what can and will actually happen.

A revolution inside North Korea is probably not going to happen on its own, barring something truly momentous; communication is too difficult, the army is too large, people have been indoctrinated for too long, and frankly most North Koreans don't know any different kind of life.

A common feature of the Arab Spring revolutions was an effective communications medium and the influence of outside ideas and moral/direct support. Neither of which can be said North Korea has.

So what does that leave? Do we just sit and hope for lightning to strike in North Korea?

the DPRK already had its revolution. since then deformities have obviously developed.

but, in no fucking way is a comprador government led by seoul better than an independent government led by pyongyang. The only reason why the south is more glitzy than the south was because in the 70s the imperialists realized that the DPRK was doing a hell of a lot better than the fucked up situation in occupied south korea.

secondly, since when did the size of a national army become a problem for revolutionaries? and when the fuck did being 'realistic' mean anything when you are going head on into a fight with the bourgeoisie. had lenin been 'realistic' he probably wouldnt have written the april thesis or called for the mobilization of the party to overthrow the kerensky government and establish soviet power.

third, so the people of the DPRK are just indoctrinated and therefore too dumb to run their own lives? people could have said that about egyptians russians or cubans and people still say the same about americans.

and as soon as any opposition movement arises in the DPRK, ROK and US agents would be all over it co opting the shit out of it.

[Shotgun Opera]

Getting sold to a new master doesn't mean you're no longer a slave

That's a real cute bumpersticker but it ignores the reality of the situation.

the DPRK already had its revolution. since then deformities have obviously developed.

I'd call the situation in North Korea a bit more serious than "deformities."

but, in no fucking way is a comprador government led by seoul better than an independent government led by pyongyang. The only reason why the south is more glitzy than the south was because in the 70s the imperialists realized that the DPRK was doing a hell of a lot better than the fucked up situation in occupied south korea.

I would hardly call Pyonyang an independent government in the sense that it represents the will and interests of the people. In fact, I'm questioning how much different the North Korean government is than an occupying oppressive force, say the British in India or pretty much anywhere else they ended up.

secondly, since when did the size of a national army become a problem for revolutionaries? and when the fuck did being 'realistic' mean anything when you are going head on into a fight with the bourgeoisie. had lenin been 'realistic' he probably wouldnt have written the april thesis or called for the mobilization of the party to overthrow the kerensky government and establish soviet power.

North Korea's military has spent the last several decades arming itself to fight conventional and unconventional foes; internal or external. They're hardly in tip-top shape, but I question how a revolution would start when the area would simply be immediately glassed by North Korean aircraft or where most people are afraid to talk because of the massive and omnipresent secret police presence.

Note I didnt say this was impossible, merely highly improbable.

Lenin also had the advantage of outside influences and a population that was resentful of the incumbent government.

third, so the people of the DPRK are just indoctrinated and therefore too dumb to run their own lives?

You said that, not I.

They are indoctrinated against seeing how their situation really is and how much it could be improved by dropping their banners and picking up guns.

and as soon as any opposition movement arises in the DPRK, ROK and US agents would be all over it co opting the shit out of it.

So what do you suggest?

[Rusty Shackleford]

So what do you suggest?

let me respond to just this because what everything boils down to is this.



fight for socialism where you live, if its the us, dont run away.


why?



all the deformities and fuck ups that have happened are not inherently failures of ideology. theres a reason why the DPRK puts its military first. its virtually surrounded by a nuclear armed enemy. instead of attacking their government, criticize and work against your own. sometimes their are gross miscalculations, and there is room for criticism.

things would change very quickly if world capitalism was defeated, or at least the hub of it all, the US was defeated. but calling for the fall of the DPRK is siding with imperialism. im not even telling you to defend the DPRK, but if the DPRK were to be overthrown, it wouldnt be better off. the struggle for a unified and independent korea would die as it all would then be under the guidance and control of the US and its allies.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

That's a real cute bumpersticker but it ignores the reality of the situation.

Thanks, I'm going to get it printed on Monday.

[Shotgun Opera]

let me respond to just this because what everything boils down to is this.



fight for socialism where you live, if its the us, dont run away.


why?



all the deformities and fuck ups that have happened are not inherently failures of ideology.

Ok, I can get behind that, however I would contend that the only real ideology North Korea displays is military totalitarian dictatorship, borrowing bits and pieces from Socialism or Communism so long as those pieces can be used to reinforce the regime's hold on the people and enrich those in power.

theres a reason why the DPRK puts its military first. its virtually surrounded by a nuclear armed enemy.

It's got China (a nation it's very friendly with at it's back door, what does it have to be afraid of?

instead of attacking their government, criticize and work against your own. sometimes their are gross miscalculations, and there is room for criticism.

Why cant you do both?

things would change very quickly if world capitalism was defeated, or at least the hub of it all, the US was defeated. but calling for the fall of the DPRK is siding with imperialism. im not even telling you to defend the DPRK, but if the DPRK were to be overthrown, it wouldnt be better off. the struggle for a unified and independent korea would die as it all would then be under the guidance and control of the US and its allies.

I think we need to focus more on the here-now and the situation the North Korean people are in before we focus on Korean reunification or shoring up the North Korean government.

We have to remember that even people like us would be jailed and shot in North Korea, a country that, supposedly, is run by people sympathetic to our political viewpoints. It is not an open country where ideas of Communism and Socialism can flourish, it will not evolve into an open state over time.

My primary concern is the well-being of the North Korean people. If the DPRK could see to their well-being while avoiding the whole "death camp secret police" thing, I would get behind them 100%. However, that not being the case, I think it's our duty and responsibility as people who follow ideologies that claim to care about the people to call "bullshit" when we see it and do what we can to right something gone off the rails. If Seoul is able and willing to step in and help, fuck, but fine let's get people fed and in a position where they can revolt.

They're making us look bad, the rest of the world sees North Korea call itself a Socialist country and they look at us like we're advancing North Korea as some sort of triumph of Socialism. If we want to show the world that we are truly concerned about the people the rich step on every day, we need to do what we can to stand against anyone who would step on those same people. Even if those people pretend to be our brothers, perhaps especially if they pretend to be our brothers. If North Korea ever does free itself, dont you think there's going to be a massive backlash against Socialism, reminiscent of "de-Stalinization"? I'd anticipate there being a climate in a newly freed North Korea towards Socialism akin to the climate regarding Nazism in Germany today; extremely hostile if not outright banned. We need to do what we can to make sure we dont lose that entire area to Capitalism for good, which is exactly what will happen if we just stand back and wait for things to get better. We need to be there showing North Koreans that what they're living under isnt Socialism and that true Socialism can help them.

We're so quick to balk at places like the US and Europe when they're pulling some underhanded crap, but we're just going to wait out North Korea and see what happens a few decades down the road? I cant accept that.

[manic expression]

Ok, I can get behind that, however I would contend that the only real ideology North Korea displays is military totalitarian dictatorship,

Yeah, that's just something capitalist politicians say...it's not actually an ideology. Surely you're not falling for that old politician's trick, right?

Why cant you do both?

Because you can hardly oppose your own government effectively if you're applauding their foreign policy in trying to "finish the job" of conquering Korea.

I think we need to focus more on the here-now and the situation the North Korean people are in before we focus on Korean reunification or shoring up the North Korean government.

The difficult situation the people of the DPRK are in is because of imperialism. Imperialism set up a siege against the country, imperialism has been threatening the country militarily...and now you want to gleefully cheer that same force?

We have to remember that even people like us would be jailed and shot in North Korea,

No, you most likely wouldn't be. They even let Jenkins go home even though everyone knew he was going to defect back to the US.

My primary concern is the well-being of the North Korean people. If the DPRK could see to their well-being while avoiding the whole "death camp secret police" thing, I would get behind them 100%.

I'm quite keen to hear precisely what "whole 'death camp secret police' thing" you're referring to.