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On This Day - 1965, Winston Churchill dies
Poster boy for the right (especially in the UK) dies after suffering a stroke.
Cue much mourning and tributes, over 300,000 people filing past his body as it lay in state.
Hate how revered this guy is / was.
"I will not pretend that, if I had to choose between communism and Nazism, I would choose communism". - speaking in Parliament, 1937
Was in favour of letting Ghandi starve himself to death
Favoured abandoning universal suffrage in an essay written in 1930
Favoured the use of chemical weapons against Kurdish tribesmen in Iraq
Acted as a paid consultant for Burmah Oil (now BP) to lobby the British government to allow Burma to have exclusive rights to Persian oil resources, which were successfully granted
...yet he's often considered the 'Greatest Briton' or Greatest Prime Minister...ugh
Most people don't know what a piece of waste the guy was. He was a fan of Mussolini and admired Fascism so much that I bet if the war never started he would have been standing side by side with animals like Oswold Moseley. He didn't beat Fascism like everyone says -it was the British American and Soviet PEOPLE who did plus the tons of Anti-Fascism groups in the countries that were under Fascist occupation.
WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!
Smash the pseudo-socialists! (click)
[FONT=Arial Narrow]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (communism)
"From each under threat of starvation, to each according to his purchasing power (capitalism)[/FONT]
The war over Britons unceremoniously kicked 'Winnie' from office. It was said and oft repeated, that workers had another idea what a land fit for heroes might look like. He was much loved as a war leader, notwithstanding strategic errors. North Africa. He also said the war was unnecessary pushed for TRIPLE ALLIANCE. Agreed with the dash for the Curzon and opposed the arming of Finns with 100,000 rifles and various planes and ordinance along with British soldiers. His overarching concern was the continuation of Empire, a war in Europe he rightly saw would shatter imperial dreams. I saw his coffin come into St pauls carried up the steps, as a youth. I was employed in the wholesale rag trade. The premises were in the churchyard. There was food and drink laid on, but it meant nothing to me, or indeed any of the youngsters, beyond getting squiffey on the free beer. He was remote, belonged to another age. He is quite possibly one of the most disgraceful persons to have ever walked the planet. Thankfully Stalin and the Soviets were more than a match for him, on every level. Inasmuch he was along with Eden a realist, he never let his rabid anti communism get in the way of imperial interest. Too many utterly disgraceful incidents from his life to recount here, a half hour Wiki will fill a Black Book.
Night has one thousand eyes
Wasn't he in charge of British military actions in Ireland after the Easter Rising of 1916?
Imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever, saying:
"I KNOW YOU FEEL UPSET RE STAMPING, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM STRUCTURAL OPPRESSION"
He was also a big fan of eugenics, advocating the sterilisation of "the feeble-minded and insane classes".
[FONT="Garamond"][/FONT][FONT="Fixedsys"]All men are born with equal rights, and in associating to protect one another and share public burdens, justice demands that such associations should rest upon a basis which maintains equality instead of destroying it.
We therefore declare that, unable longer to endure the curse of Monarchical Government, we aim at founding a Republic based on universal suffrage, which shall secure to all the intrinsic value of their labour.
The soil of Ireland, at present in the possession of an oligarchy, belongs to us, the Irish people, and to us it must be restored.
1867 Fenian Proclamation[/FONT]
Good riddance
Those who, in the name of the quest for the "new," reject the use of the tested insights, understandings, and accomplishments of the last century or more, will merely repeat "old" mistakes.
He was a big fan of eugenics, advocating the sterilisation of "the feeble-minded and insane classes".
[FONT="Garamond"][/FONT][FONT="Fixedsys"]All men are born with equal rights, and in associating to protect one another and share public burdens, justice demands that such associations should rest upon a basis which maintains equality instead of destroying it.
We therefore declare that, unable longer to endure the curse of Monarchical Government, we aim at founding a Republic based on universal suffrage, which shall secure to all the intrinsic value of their labour.
The soil of Ireland, at present in the possession of an oligarchy, belongs to us, the Irish people, and to us it must be restored.
1867 Fenian Proclamation[/FONT]
He was what Britian needed at the time and is one of the great leaders of the 20th century. I admire him.
And nothing of value was lost.
FKA Red Godfather
Churchill had been involved in the colonial ministry of the United Kingdom. In his capacity as Secretary of Secretary of State for the Colonies he was one of those there when the Anglo-Irish Treaty was signed creating the Irish Free State and guaranteeing continued use of certain ports by the British- and later supported the Free State against Republican forces during the civil war.
Churchill during the period of WWI and its aftermath was more involved in operations against the Ottoman Empire and later the attempts to build British influence there- many discussions by British functionaries concerning the new mandates of the Middle-East would have Churchill pop up from time to time. As OP mentions he was among those involved in putting down Arab and Kurdish tribal rebellions blowing out in the Mandate of Iraq- advocating for use of gas against Kurdish elements during the Sheikh Barzinji rebellion, which was one of many attempts at resisting the imposition of power (Churchill apparently thought this would be more effective and 'humane'!). This with finding ways to essentially 'squeeze' what is now Iraq into submission by manipulating food and funding to the new mandate as well as making certain 'alliances' with powerful local notables. This period also saw the use of aircraft being used on civilian centers on a large scale, surpassing the airship raids in WW I, setting a precedent of things to come years later.
Churchill also naturally had some strong opinions on the October Revolution and the Bolsheviks, advocating for intervention on the side of the Whites to destroy the movement. That is more in line with many of his peers, as one would expect.
Unfortunately Churchill wasn't alone in this, just brings an example of how many leaders from his generation shared his elitist and social darwinist views on society. Lot of the zany views he had on peoples outside of the 'civilized' fold of English culture and eugenics were in fashion then for members of his class, even those who considered themselves 'intellectuals' and reformers unfortunately. Like a lot of people who get lionized after their deaths due to their contributions, real or perceived, the unsavory parts of their personality are glossed over if not white washed. You'll find that with many of these criticisms leveled against Churchill, there's a group of people ready to counter that with apologetics or another interpretation of events.
Plus, when he receives praise, it's usually due to his time in WW II, I don't think you find as many talking about what he did during his second stint as PM in the early 50s. Another thing for 'progressives' here was during his time of course was the MI6 involvement in overthrowing the Mossadeq government in Iran.
Plus, he's not always a neat fit for the conservatives of today. I think that Churchill's endorsement of a "United States of Europe" would not fly too well with the Tory Euroskeptics who otherwise heap praises on him (though Churchill's idea of this may've been different from what the EU is now, and of course with UK holding more sway). Similar to how Republicans here see Reagan as a champion of a 'balanced' budget even though debt still increased in his term. Guess Democrats in the US can be seen as falling into this with Bill Clinton, FDR, and JFK too.
But for what ever reason he represents a 'strong leader in desperate times' that people just are supposed to respect if not admire. I think at the end it's really all about the perception of his leadership during WW II which fashions most of his image, along with the usual flamboyance and 'manly' characteristics (Americans can compare this to Theodore Roosevelt).
Don't give animals a bad name, most of them are wonderful creatures.
FKA LinksRadikal
“The possibility of securing for every member of society, by means of socialized production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially, and becoming day by day more full, but an existence guaranteeing to all the free development and exercise of their physical and mental faculties – this possibility is now for the first time here, but it is here.” Friedrich Engels
"The proletariat is its struggle; and its struggles have to this day not led it beyond class society, but deeper into it." Friends of the Classless Society
"Your life is survived by your deeds" - Steve von Till
Best Churchill story ever.
Two very good friends who deserve all the exposure they can get.
Dave Zirin - Edge of Sports
Alex Billet - Rebel Frequencies
Churchill was a pro-Zionist and an ironic believer in the Judeo-Bolshevik conspiracy to create a worldwide Jewish state under Bolshevism.
Supported Mussolini
And Hitler
Look at the nice things that he had to say about Native Americans and Australians.
I could contribute more, but I think that everyone gets the point.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
This was the guy that ordered troops to fire on indian peacefull protesters and that caused thousands of english and british empire soldiers to die in Turkey in WW1.
Thank god Clement Atlee won in WW2 aftermath
A la izquierda de lo posible
Winston Churchill also was responsible for the murder of 3,000,000 Bengali citizens because he refused to send or allow food into the Bengal province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
Just because i admire someone doesnt mean i agree with their stances on certain issues.
You would think that everything that's been posted in this thread would give you good enough reason to not admire him though
What exactly is that you admire about him?
His tenacity, leadership, stubborness to surrender in the face of annihilation and not to mention his phenominal ability as a writer and speaker.
Hmm you could say all that about Hitler as well; he was stubborn, determined, absolutely refused to surrender and he was an excellent orator as well. You can acknowledge those qualities without having to admire the person possessing them.
I admire Hitler for his orating, as far as his other leadership abilities i would call them nothing short of an ignorant sense of invicibility. I admire the qualities however theyre not often found in history, let alone within one person.
