Thread: Nuclear Fusion?

Results 1 to 20 of 24

  1. #1

    Default

    Having studied "Nuclear and Particle Physics" for two years at school, I developed an outside interest in the development of Nuclear Fusion as a potential power source.

    Some facts to consider:

    Nuclear Fusion is inherently safe; it cannot experience "meltdown".
    Fuels (inputs) are widely available; water (deuterium, tritium) and lithium.
    NO greenhouse gasses emitted whatsoever.
    NO toxic pollutants formed which cannot be reused in the reaction.
    Radioactive reactor a short term problem.
    Power would become cheap and (nearly) unlimited - fuels would last for millenia.

    However, scientists have been working on Nuclear Fusion for decades. A Fusion reaction can be produced, but it always needs a net input of energy. In other words it needs power just to run - the reaction is not self-sustaining.

    Nuclear Fusion basically involves squashing two particles together. (The opposite of a nuclear fission reaction, which breaks atoms apart. Nuclear Fission is currently used in nuclear power plants the world over - and in the A-Bomb) Although energy is eventually released from this reaction, huge amounts of energy need to be put in to 'start it off'. Current methods of doing this are inefficient; therefore the reaction loses energy.

    Whilst Nuclear Fusion is a super idea, it seems to be out of our reach. Should research into it continue? Or should the resources be directed elsewhere? What do people think?
    Peace, Love and Jesus!
    <span style=\'color:red\'>Also, Lenin.</span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:green\'>&quot;Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.&quot; (Albert Einstein) </span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:black\'>&quot;To find a queen without a king,
    They say she plays guitar and cries and sings,
    Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn,
    Tryin&#39; to find a woman who&#39;s never, never, never been born.
    Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
    Telling myself it&#39;s not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.&quot;
    (Led Zeppelin&#33</span>
    ---
    Buy Leninade and get &quot;Hammered and Sickled&quot;&#33;
  2. #2
    Join Date May 2003
    Location england
    Posts 944
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    I thinck reaserch should conntinue as we may eventually find more ifecianet ways of doing it.
    Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
    WORKERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE&#33;

    Written by Karl Marx
  3. #3
    Join Date Jul 2003
    Location Lincoln, NE, USA
    Posts 1,137
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    I am no expert in this science, that is for sure...

    From what I understand:

    Fusion is a tremendous potential source of energy

    BUT

    the only form of fusion possible generates tremendous heat (our Sun is fusion at work, yes?)...

    To make it work for us, we would have to have a method of trapping or absorbing the heat... we do not want a star on Earth...
    Lincoln's Underground Network -- LUNk Radio
    http://www.lunkradio.org
  4. #4
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Location Americana
    Posts 843
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    There have been "hot" fusion reactors created, but you&#39;re correct, the upkeep cost is astronomical. Of course you can advance the notion that in a international socialist society, upkeep cost would not be a cause for concern.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.13
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10
  5. #5
    Join Date Oct 2003
    Location Cincinnati, O.
    Posts 271
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    Fusion is extremely hot, and it only takes place when the reactants are plasmas. The only way to contain the plasma is through the use of magnetic fields, which are arranged in a Torus shape (A Donut, man). This is the format used by the reactor at Princeton, they call it the Tokamak or something.

    I have seen plans for fusion on a smaller scale, using lasers to superheat individual reactant atoms for fusion, but I am not very experienced on this issue. Does anybody know what I&#39;m talking about?
    <span style=\'color:green\'>For the love of a tree, go out on a limb.</span>
  6. #6
    Join Date Nov 2002
    Location somewhere else
    Posts 6,139
    Organisation
    Angry Anarchists Anonymous
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    I don&#39;t think we need to search for fusion power. As has been mentioned the sun is just a huge fusion generator. Why don&#39;t we use that? Solar panels (which convert heat straight to electricity) and wind power generators (which convert mechanical energy (wind (which is created by the sun heating up parts of the earth)) to electricity), are already in common usage and are relatively efficient. And a lot cheaper as the technology is already around.
  7. #7
    Join Date Oct 2003
    Location Cincinnati, O.
    Posts 271
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    renewables are also a very good idea, but fusion would provide a powerful supplement to a series of renewable energy sources. But a good point nonetheless.
    <span style=\'color:green\'>For the love of a tree, go out on a limb.</span>
  8. #8
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Location U$A
    Posts 12,168
    Rep Power 30

    Default

    Renewable sources are, in principle, well within our grasp. We know how to do it and all we really need is the will to do it a lot more and allocate the necessary resources. I suspect the sunlight that falls on the deserts of North Africa and Arabia could power all of Europe.

    Fusion power, if we ever learn how to make it work effectively, will open the solar system to human colonization.

    I wonder which way humans will decide to go.



    The RedStar2000 Papers
    A site about communist ideas
    Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
    The Redstar2000 Papers
    Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
  9. #9
    Join Date Jan 2003
    Location Kentucky
    Posts 2,500
    Rep Power 20

    Default

    safe and comfortable sustenance, or power with risks?

    you tell me.

    besides, one can&#39;t really rend weapons out of the sunlight, can you?
    Resist Much. Obey Little
    -Walt Whitman

    <span style=\'color:gray\'>&quot;As through this life you travel, you meet some funny men
    Some rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen

    As through this life you ramble, as through this life you roam
    You&#39;ll never see an outlaw take a family from their home&quot;
    -from Pretty Boy Floyd
    (W. Guthrie)</span>
  10. #10

    Default


    the only form of fusion possible generates tremendous heat (our Sun is fusion at work, yes?)...
    Yes... In a sense. It is the tremendous heat (and massive gravitational forces present in a star) which allows fusion to take place and be sustained in a star. Obviously, we cannot replicate these conditions on Earth. Therefore, we must find another way to apply a similar amount of energy to the system safely on Earth. This is possible (I believe) but very tricky.


    I have seen plans for fusion on a smaller scale, using lasers to superheat individual reactant atoms for fusion, but I am not very experienced on this issue. Does anybody know what I&#39;m talking about?
    Yes, I do; it&#39;s called "inertial confinement" or something like that. The basic idea is to fire an intense laser beam at the deutirium/tritium and ignite them spontaneously. Then, the heat generated can sustain a reaction; the laser is used to suspend the particles... I think. Unfortunaely, the laser beam is not yet suitably efficient to make such a process feasible. Toroidal confinement is a better idea. (Think I)


    Solar panels (which convert heat straight to electricity) and wind power generators (which convert mechanical energy (wind (which is created by the sun heating up parts of the earth)) to electricity), are already in common usage and are relatively efficient.
    True, but solar and wind generators are both space-inefficient and condition dependant... Not suitable as a long term reliable power source. Though undoubtadley a good idea - infinitely sustainable and inherently safe.


    ... power with risks?
    Don&#39;t know if you&#39;re referring to Fusion here - if so, there are no risks whatsoever. Meltdown CANNOT occur because of the nature of the reaction. Nor can the reactor explode or contaminate anything without outside involvement. (Terrorists h34r: )
    Peace, Love and Jesus&#33;
    <span style=\'color:red\'>Also, Lenin.</span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:green\'>&quot;Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.&quot; (Albert Einstein) </span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:black\'>&quot;To find a queen without a king,
    They say she plays guitar and cries and sings,
    Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn,
    Tryin&#39; to find a woman who&#39;s never, never, never been born.
    Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
    Telling myself it&#39;s not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.&quot;
    (Led Zeppelin&#33</span>
    ---
    Buy Leninade and get &quot;Hammered and Sickled&quot;&#33;
  11. #11
    Join Date Mar 2003
    Location Sol system
    Posts 12,306
    Organisation
    Deniers of Messiahs
    Rep Power 139

    Default

    I think a mixed approach is the best way forward. Wind, water, geothermal, solar power and limited use of fission reactors combined in a worldwide network might be able to suffice for the world&#39;s power needs, but probably not if the standard of living is going to go up for everybody.

    Fusion at the moment is possible, but as far as I know only in the form of Hydrogen bomb explosions.

    I think cold fusion is beyond our grasp right now, but even to create a miniture sun that outputs usable power would be a leap forward in terms.
    The Human Progress Group

    Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
    Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains - Karl Marx
    Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
    The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky


    Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
  12. #12
    Join Date Jul 2003
    Posts 2,893
    Organisation
    Lincoln's Underground Network
    Rep Power 19

    Default

    I just wrote a really large comprehensive post, then I lost it...I&#39;m going to go kill myself, I&#39;ll be back later.
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]¡El Pueblo Unido Jamás Será Vencido![/FONT]
    __________________
    Lincoln's Underground Network Radical left Radio

    Tell me what you think of the Communiqués

    Show solidarity through kindness and empathy, join Respectful Discussion Activists

    313C7 iVi4RX to my oldschool comrades -EM-
  13. #13
    Join Date Aug 2002
    Location Queens, NY
    Posts 1,197
    Organisation
    World Socialist Movement (US) | Bring the Ruckus (now disbanded)
    Rep Power 20

    Default

    my worry with an energy source such as cold fusion is that you know that they would make a weapon out of it. I&#39;d rather we focus on geothermal, solar, and wind power.
    __
    Economic Left/Right: -10.00
    Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67
    http://www.politicalcompass.org

    Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not come he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could for if you could be led out, you could be led back again. -Eugene V. Debs
  14. #14
    Join Date Oct 2003
    Posts 506
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    Fusion power can be made from water so it would be great.
    The economics could go down.Think about Libya for example.A great deal of Libyas income comes from selling oil.

    Making a bomb with fusion power?Why when they could make good enough with fission technology.

    I heard that in Soviet union scientists nearly discovered the fusion technology.Today the project is shut down.
  15. #15

    Default


    I think a mixed approach is the best way forward. Wind, water, geothermal, solar power and limited use of fission reactors combined in a worldwide network might be able to suffice for the world&#39;s power needs, but probably not if the standard of living is going to go up for everybody.
    Yes, I agree. I think research into Fusion should continue; meanwhile, sustainable power sources should be used to their maximum potential. This would make American Imperialist Wars fought solely for Oil obsolete. They&#39;d have to think up a new excuse; dangerous supplies of water or lithium perhaps...

    And please, please, no more worrying about Fusion bombs&#33;&#33;&#33;

    They can never exist&#33;&#33;&#33;

    The Hydrogen Bomb you refer to requires a Fission reaction to ignite. The energy used to sustain the reaction is provided by Nuclear Fusion, yes, but one cannot produce a "Fusion Bomb".


    I heard that in Soviet union scientists nearly discovered the fusion technology.
    This wouldn&#39;t surprise me. The Ruskies were light years ahead of the Americans in many fields of science. They simply lacked the power of the &#036; in the long run...
    Peace, Love and Jesus&#33;
    <span style=\'color:red\'>Also, Lenin.</span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:green\'>&quot;Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.&quot; (Albert Einstein) </span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:black\'>&quot;To find a queen without a king,
    They say she plays guitar and cries and sings,
    Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn,
    Tryin&#39; to find a woman who&#39;s never, never, never been born.
    Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
    Telling myself it&#39;s not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.&quot;
    (Led Zeppelin&#33</span>
    ---
    Buy Leninade and get &quot;Hammered and Sickled&quot;&#33;
  16. #16
    Join Date May 2003
    Location england
    Posts 944
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    it may be poccible to make a fussion bomb but it would probably happen after fussion powerstations.
    I think magnetic containment in a dougnut shape is the most prommising dessign at the moement.
    Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
    WORKERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE&#33;

    Written by Karl Marx
  17. #17
    Join Date May 2003
    Location England(Yorkshire)
    Posts 360
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    I think magnetic containment in a dougnut shape is the most prommising dessign at the moement.
    mmmm doughnut :P

    whats cold fusion? or is it cold fission( < is that a word and how would i pronounce it?)? is it related to this topic?

    excuse the obscene number of questions
  18. #18
    Join Date May 2003
    Location england
    Posts 944
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    Cold fussion is a type of fussion that provieds more energy/mass converted into energy than goes in . I&#39;t is unlikly to work as it deffies the laws of phisics
    There is some reaserch into it being done though and they think it might be possible
    Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
    WORKERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE&#33;

    Written by Karl Marx
  19. #19

    Default


    Cold fussion is a type of fussion that provieds more energy/mass converted into energy than goes in . I&#39;t is unlikly to work as it deffies the laws of phisics
    Correct. It defies the law E=mc2 . (This is Einstein&#39;s law of relativity I think - correct me if i&#39;m wrong though) Therefore, by the current laws of physics, it cannot work. However, as we all know, the laws of physics are all wrong. Newton got his wrong; Einstein has got his wrong. (Probably) We just don&#39;t know how or why yet.
    Peace, Love and Jesus&#33;
    <span style=\'color:red\'>Also, Lenin.</span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:green\'>&quot;Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.&quot; (Albert Einstein) </span>
    ---
    <span style=\'color:black\'>&quot;To find a queen without a king,
    They say she plays guitar and cries and sings,
    Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn,
    Tryin&#39; to find a woman who&#39;s never, never, never been born.
    Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
    Telling myself it&#39;s not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.&quot;
    (Led Zeppelin&#33</span>
    ---
    Buy Leninade and get &quot;Hammered and Sickled&quot;&#33;
  20. #20
    Join Date Oct 2003
    Location Cincinnati, O.
    Posts 271
    Rep Power 17

    Default

    I&#39;m not sure what you&#39;re thinking of, man, but maybe you&#39;ve been playing too many video games. The most advanced scientific theories, such as string theory, unify Newtonian mechanics with quantum mechanics, so I don&#39;t see how you say they are wrong when in fact modern study only encourages newton and einstein&#39;s work.

    However, I will say that it is not out of the question that a paradigm shift may occur in science as it has so often before, once too many abnormalities pile up to be ignored and a new theory results.
    <span style=\'color:green\'>For the love of a tree, go out on a limb.</span>

Similar Threads

  1. Nuclear Power - for or against?
    By Sentinel in forum Social and off topic
    Replies: 232
    Last Post: 19th February 2008, 21:29
  2. Nuclear power
    By Qwerty Dvorak in forum Opposing Ideologies
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 4th December 2006, 22:39
  3. Cold Fusion!
    By ComradeRed in forum Social and off topic
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 13th May 2005, 11:53
  4. FUSION JAZZ - any recommendation?
    By DEFMARX in forum Cultural
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14th March 2003, 21:00
  5. Nuclear attack
    By Bakunjin in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 15th March 2002, 08:16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread