Saudi Arabia beheads woman for 'sorcery'

[Elysian]

Well...witchcraft is alive and well. And not only in the middle east or obscure non-western countries. It is everywhere. And it plays a large part in society.

For example:
http://www.good.is/post/romanian-wit...est-new-taxes/

And if you dig deeper into that story of Romania you will probably be surprised.


Now naturally....beheading women for witchcraft is insane. It ties back into a centuries old practice of institutionalised mysogeny. Women who were outspoken, different or simply in the wrong place at the wrong
time. It is all an expression of supressing womens rights....for whatever reason or argument they give...that is what it simply boills down to.

That this happens in the ME is not a really big surprise....since most of the countries there are run by throroughly mysogenist governments or religious institutions. It is bloody aweful to see this happen.

In the medieval ages, witches were those who poisoned wells, spread diseases etc., not merely those who cast spells and stuff.

[dodger]

In the medieval ages, witches were those who poisoned wells, spread diseases etc., not merely those who cast spells and stuff.

My testicles have shrunk and the old fellow has seen better days...I suspected Wifey, but caught sight of her reflection in the mirror. The well has dried up(water well ) and the Carabao is lame. Ever stingy she went to village quack doctor and came back with foul smelling liquid that I was relieved to find out t'was for the Carabao ....not me. I have seen the good doctor in action before.....through the steam....call me Eurocentric but no man has ever spat out foul noxious liquids anywhere near my genitalia. Even with a guarantee of being good as new....and Wifey cursing me for the coward I no doubt am...I shall soldier on with what I was bequeathed.

In Britain we had a spate of raids, zealous, witch-finder, social workers, dawn raided families and dragged off children. Needless to say it took months to reunite them and the damage done by these christian bigots ever on the watch for the devils work will never be put right..... 20th century insanity!

http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rc...tSyEJqWhvqfYhg

[Lanky Wanker]

Sorcery? Witchcraft? This is the 21st century, not the 17th century, and people still believe in this nonsense?

This is organised religion we're talking about here, don't take it too seriously.

[Elysian]

My testicles have shrunk and the old fellow has seen better days...I suspected Wifey, but caught sight of her reflection in the mirror. The well has dried up(water well ) and the Carabao is lame. Ever stingy she went to village quack doctor and came back with foul smelling liquid that I was relieved to find out t'was for the Carabao ....not me. I have seen the good doctor in action before.....through the steam....call me Eurocentric but no man has ever spat out foul noxious liquids anywhere near my genitalia. Even with a guarantee of being good as new....and Wifey cursing me for the coward I no doubt am...I shall soldier on with what I was bequeathed.

In Britain we had a spate of raids, zealous, witch-finder, social workers, dawn raided families and dragged off children. Needless to say it took months to reunite them and the damage done by these christian bigots ever on the watch for the devils work will never be put right..... 20th century insanity!

http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rc...tSyEJqWhvqfYhg

Are you high?

[dodger]

Are you high?

pretty level......thanks Elysian...although pretty busy with Xmas nearly upon us.
Although here in Wifey's country, a tropical setting, we enjoy it much the same as back home in uk. A time for children...and Wifey has strong family ties that bind....it is also important to her as a shared religious time, her late father was a much loved pastor in a protestant American denomination. I share none of her religious convictions....so I do not participate. But they are very welcoming and we enjoy our Sundays they hold their service in doors and I sit in the Nippa hut with a coffee. Luckily they have fine voices and all can harmonize and hold a note.It is also a very superstitious country from what I observe, beyond the imposition of Christianity by the Spaniards and latterly the US Protestants. A rich culture....a tapestry but in my opinion the religion needs to be tamed. The people have yet to put that job on their agenda. The church is not such a monolith. A priest was gunned down last month. There are several in the hills with 5m peso on their heads. Anyhow.....no time for dark forebodings about negative spirits or demons....we are all getting ready for a good time.....and the Carabao seems to be on the mend.


Elysian...... Merry Christmas and a happy New YEAR!!!

[PhoenixAsh]

In the medieval ages, witches were those who poisoned wells, spread diseases etc., not merely those who cast spells and stuff.

O they did all kinds of things according to those who prosecuted them. Problem is...it was a religious prosecution against women who were accused of dark dealings with Satan.

Most of them did nothing....they just were women. That was basically their only crime. Maybe a girl refused the advances of somebody and they got jealous and started a hate campaign (a documented case) or maybe she looked weird. Or maybe she was just timid and quiet. Or maybe she lived alone and a cow died next door. Or whatever...

It is very telling that it were for 90% women who got prosecuted for witchcraft. Rarely it were men. And that was a direct result from the biblical aspect of the fall from grace. Women were in the eyes of the church very susceptable for the influences of Satan.

[Hiero]

O they did all kinds of things according to those who prosecuted them. Problem is...it was a religious prosecution against women who were accused of dark dealings with Satan.

I believe alot of thoose accused were pagan worshipers. During Medival Europe the church began centralising power, including the powet to commute with God. Women who still practics pagan rituals, to heal, curse whatever were thought to be dangerous and their power to be real. Though in the Christian logic there is only God and Satan, so pagan follows were thought to be worshiping Satan.

Like you said there is alot of stuff on women being susceptable to Satan, but this takes on a sexual context. Alot of the women persecuted feel out of norm categories, so young single women living outside families were targeted. This was really the first time in Europe that a wide encompassing system of morals, ethics and religion was being forced onto people. So the family starts to be enforced, rules around sexual intercourse and larger communities are being formed. Sort of the precursor to nations and state.

I have not studied the medieval witchcraft stuff for awhile, so it is a bit hazzy.

Modern Witchcraft still exist throughout the world. Central Africa is interesting, witchcraft in this region is sometimes just a norm of life. Often someone may be accused of commiting witchcraft and some times just have to apologize to affected person. It is tangled into the honour systems, so maybe the person created the witchcraft unknowingly because he has been doing bad deeds or holding bad feelings towards someone. Again women are often targeted, like jealousy wives. A wife was jealous and this jealous caused her witchcraft to ignite and harm her husband or the 1st wife or whatever.

[Elysian]

O they did all kinds of things according to those who prosecuted them. Problem is...it was a religious prosecution against women who were accused of dark dealings with Satan.

Most of them did nothing....they just were women. That was basically their only crime. Maybe a girl refused the advances of somebody and they got jealous and started a hate campaign (a documented case) or maybe she looked weird. Or maybe she was just timid and quiet. Or maybe she lived alone and a cow died next door. Or whatever...

It is very telling that it were for 90% women who got prosecuted for witchcraft. Rarely it were men. And that was a direct result from the biblical aspect of the fall from grace. Women were in the eyes of the church very susceptable for the influences of Satan.

Don't be so biased. Not everything is about patriarchy and sexism.

[Hiero]

Don't be so biased. Not everything is about patriarchy and sexism.

What would you call the systematic burning of women other then patriachy and sexism?

[Elysian]

What would you call the systematic burning of women other then patriachy and sexism?

How do you know they were punished for being women?

[Ocean Seal]

And time and time will show again, that the most reactionary and brutal regimes are the bulwarks of imperialism though imperialists may constantly decry other reactionary (Iran) and brutal (Syria) regimes. Which is not to say by the way that those nations aren't reactionary or brutal, but rather that the excuses that the imperialists give for their invasions are an absurdity to anyone with two eyes.

[brigadista]

How do you know they were punished for being women?

i read the below for studies - bad to be a woman back then not so good now but ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

[PhoenixAsh]

I believe alot of thoose accused were pagan worshipers. During Medival Europe the church began centralising power, including the powet to commute with God. Women who still practics pagan rituals, to heal, curse whatever were thought to be dangerous and their power to be real. Though in the Christian logic there is only God and Satan, so pagan follows were thought to be worshiping Satan.

Like you said there is alot of stuff on women being susceptable to Satan, but this takes on a sexual context. Alot of the women persecuted feel out of norm categories, so young single women living outside families were targeted. This was really the first time in Europe that a wide encompassing system of morals, ethics and religion was being forced onto people. So the family starts to be enforced, rules around sexual intercourse and larger communities are being formed. Sort of the precursor to nations and state.

I have not studied the medieval witchcraft stuff for awhile, so it is a bit hazzy.

Modern Witchcraft still exist throughout the world. Central Africa is interesting, witchcraft in this region is sometimes just a norm of life. Often someone may be accused of commiting witchcraft and some times just have to apologize to affected person. It is tangled into the honour systems, so maybe the person created the witchcraft unknowingly because he has been doing bad deeds or holding bad feelings towards someone. Again women are often targeted, like jealousy wives. A wife was jealous and this jealous caused her witchcraft to ignite and harm her husband or the 1st wife or whatever.

I think you are not far off in your analysis here. It is very good.

But many of the women had little to do with paganism...or herecy and other violations of canonical law.

What is maybe very interesting to point out is that in the early dark ages...around 900 AD...the idea of whitch hunting was outlawed and in itself declared an non-Christian practice and prosecuting a suspected witch was punishable by death itself.

In historical development the hunt for whiches is distinct from the inquisition itself. That started in the middle ages when the Cathars were declared a heretical group. Only later was the crime of witchcraft and sorcery added to the tasks of the inquisition.

Basically because of two reasons:
1). The inquisition outlived its mian purpose: combat herecy. But was a lucrative bussiness for the orders involved and therefore sought to perpetuate its existence.
2). Because of superstitions of villagers and towns people and the activities of some preachers who ranted against dark magic for explanation of natural causes and their ill effects.

We can speculate why the witchhunts focussed mainly on women...but I think again...there are two forces at play here.

And I think you are offering a very good additional reason why this happened.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

i no lover of the saudis but

2 words -
Troy Davis-
and this

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2011

US is just as barbarous- no reason to get sanctimonious

While I agree that Troy Davis should not be executed, as far as I know they are not making claims of sorcery.

And also, while US society is quite patriarchal women aren't being beheaded by institutional forces here for not falling into the patriarchal order.

[Hiero]

How do you know they were punished for being women?

That is not how it works.

I think you are not far off in your analysis here. It is very good.

I have not read anything on it for awhile, I am more focusing on the cultural framework, I am hazy on the historical development.

[Invader Zim]

i no lover of the saudis but

2 words -
Troy Davis-
and this

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2011

US is just as barbarous- no reason to get sanctimonious

Basically, I'm of the same view as Esperanza Xochitl above.