The leftist stance on vice?

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

I was thinking to myself recently, what is the leftist stand on vice? Well more specifically such activites like smoking pot, drinking, or something more out there prostitution? Should the stay illegal, should the be legalized, or legalized and regulated? My stance is that the proletariat should be allowed to do whatever they please with their money, as long as of course he/she earned it. After all vice is a good way to release stress, aint it?

[Clarksist]

These are the kinds of politics which can not necessarily be answered along purely economic lines (by "left" I assume you mean adhering to the economic philosophy of democratic control of the means of production). From my limited understanding, the drug laws in my country (the United States) were mostly created to criminalize a particular race and were codified under Nixon in order to criminalize the protest movement which used certain drugs disproportionately to the general population. I would not be surprised if in a socialist country if Nazis did a lot of a certain drug, then it would be criminalized because that is the way power functions. It is not fair, but it is true.

Sex work, in my opinion, is a perfectly legitimate way to make a living, but that's a sex positive standpoint. Puritans exist in all groups that are formed purely under economic opinions. That being said, the left is typical socially "liberal" (I know I'm going to be destroyed for using that term) in the sense that they are typically materialist (i.e. not religious) and so not beholden to certain irrational moral traditions.

[socialistjustin]

I personally hold the view that drugs should be decriminalized. Prostitution is a very hot topic in Nevada and I tend to side with the pro legalization people on it. From what I can tell, the anti legalization people are a bunch of religious idiots from up north who hate Vegas. I really don't care much for moral arguments against sin or whatever.

[tir1944]

Vice is not good and should be avoided.

[socialistjustin]

Why should it be avoided? What is it going to hurt if someone feels it necessary to light a blunt after work? I don't understand to be honest.

[tir1944]

Means that communists especially should avoid drinking,drugs and promiscuity to set an example for others.It's been like this since always anyway...

[socialistjustin]

Why? I don't get why communists should be straight edge. There is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking or smoking or whatever unless it starts to ruin your personal life. Letting it all go once in awhile is a great stress reliever.

Also, I'm not sure it has always been that way. Marx would get hammered and throw stones at lamp posts. Yeah, he was certainly being that straight edge example.

[Art Vandelay]

I personally hold the view that drugs should be decriminalized. Prostitution is a very hot topic in Nevada and I tend to side with the pro legalization people on it. From what I can tell, the anti legalization people are a bunch of religious idiots from up north who hate Vegas. I really don't care much for moral arguments against sin or whatever.

Decriminalization is one of the most idiotic concepts I have ever heard. Whatever a grown adult decides to consume, as long as not harming anyone else, is no business but their own. End of discussion.

[Thirsty Crow]

Means that communists especially should avoid drinking,drugs and promiscuity to set an example for others.It's been like this since always anyway...

And why should I wish to set an example for someone?
It's actually quite pathetic that a self-described communists can hold on to such idiotic and ridiculous banalities as "it's been like this since d'oh always". By now, it's become painfully obvious that you are one hardcore social conservative, and some allegations with respect to other threads (I loved that one on cosmopolitanism) now tend to appear in a different light.

What do you think about Marx's advocacy - or rather, prediction - that communism is to abolish the family?

[socialistjustin]

So the act of abolishing all laws relating to drugs is idiotic?

I see where I went wrong there. What I want is legalization. Another semantical error by me tonight. I am on a roll.

[Thirsty Crow]

So the act of abolishing all laws relating to drugs is idiotic?

I see where I went wrong there. What I want is legalization. Another semantical error by me tonight. I am on a roll.

In fact, decriminalization and legalization are not the same thing.
Decrim refers to an offence like possessing light drugs being "demoted" to the status of a minor offence, which does not mean that it is legal to possess the substance. I think that legalization speaks for itself.

[Art Vandelay]

So the act of abolishing all laws relating to drugs is idiotic?

I see where I went wrong there. What I want is legalization. Another semantical error by me tonight. I am on a roll.

I kinda thought you came off as a pro-legalize and not someone who believed in decriminalization from your post and just assumed you were unaware about the difference. Most people are.

To Tir: Legalize it don`t criticize it.

[socialistjustin]

I am aware of the difference I just get confused and shit and use the wrong words. Sorry for the confusion.

[Franz Fanonipants]

i'm pretty sure that a lot of "vice" is uniquely capitalist. sexuality, drug taking, drinking, whatever are all going to be present in any future society. But, if capital is dismantled, they will probably take a different form. i mean clearly most forms of vice under capitalism are unique to the structures of capital.

i.e. pornography, states and non-state drug trade, alcohol and tobacco industries, etc. all replicate capitalist relationships between classes and the means of production

the lumpen aristocracy or whatever you crazies would call it would necessarily have to change form. shit, though, they might be the last existing forms of capitalism at the end of it.

[promethean]

a lot of "vice" is uniquely capitalist.

All this actually existed in pre-capitalist society: feudalism and slavery were not particularly known for their puritanism.

But, if capital is dismantled, they will probably take a different form.

What other form?

i.e. pornography, states and non-state drug trade, alcohol and tobacco industries, etc. all replicate capitalist relationships between classes and the means of production

Not quite. None of these 'vices' have anything unique to capitalism or have anything to do with the relations to the means of production.

[∞]

The law doesn't represent morality as is with bourgeoisie states. One can be a "chaotic good" or a "lawful evil" for a very good reason. Though these terms are very black and white, vice such as sin exemplified by what is illegal because a post-hoc, subjective way of analyzing moral issues. Many social conditions such as religion turn what is vice into anything against subjective moral understandings. The only "immoral" things that can truly exist are those which violate a mutual agreement. In that case the perpetrator has committed an "immoral" act. Such as murder, I choose not to kill someone because it could quite possibly put my life in jeopardy.

Therefore any "crime" without a victim or one that doesn't violate an objective, mutual agreement, is fine. There is nothing wrong with paying for sex as long as it's voluntarily.

[Rooster]

I don't see a problem with people wanting to smoke a joint or have a drink, just so as long it doesn't bother me or interfere with your work when I need you to be sober. I also personally don't care what people do for sex. If they want to sell it or pay for it then that's fine in my books.

It's been like this since always anyway...

No it hasn't. Marx was one for a few pints and had it off with one of his servants and Engels was a proponent of free love.

[Potato]

Means that communists especially should avoid drinking,drugs and promiscuity to set an example for others.It's been like this since always anyway...

fuck you and your moralist high horse bullshit

go party with moses

[Franz Fanonipants]

Not quite. None of these 'vices' have anything unique to capitalism or have anything to do with the relations to the means of production.

lawl ultra-leftism basically is about destroying any kind of context to knowledge and ignoring material conditions

drug use, pornography, and alcoholism all necessarily conform to the economic context they exist in. if you don't understand that, shit, you're purposely missing my point.

[teflon_john]

the more the better, i'd say.