Thread: The leftist stance on vice?

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  1. #41
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    drug use, pornography, and alcoholism all necessarily conform to the economic context they exist in. if you don't understand that, shit, you're purposely missing my point.
    Of course, but that's not the point: the point is what kind of an attitude should a society adopt towards such practices, and ultimately how could it regulate these.
    Under capitalism, drug production is a business like any other, it employs wage labour and produces commodities, though the specificity of this particular production is that it is illegal (and doesn't have the cost of taxes on its back).
    Under communism, drugs couldn't be prodced as commodities, but as useful products which fulfill a need. Some of them might not be produced at all if a society reaches a decision to ban such production - effectively to posit that this cannot be understood as a need worthy of being met. Furthermore, it would be more difficult to set up illegal production under communsim since the producers would be wholly dependant on barter as ways of obtaining use values (this presupposes the elimination of money in the form of labour vouchers - which would not circulate).

    But the real question is what do we think about the reasons provided for one decision or the other over this issue. And this is not a matter of abstract individual choice, of course - since production in communism is directly social production, and an individual cannot choose to consume something which is not being produced, but then again we come back to the issue of why would producers decide not to produce certain items. This very well might be the case, though I woulnd't advocate any such ban - or in other words, unconditional legalization of light drugs, and possibly of "more serious" stuff.
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  2. #42
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    I can understand some people make have a hardline against some drugs or most. Ultimately it's up to the individual. Every person should have the freedom to choose what they should or shouldn't do to their body. I drink, i smoke pot, it's a good way to relax and relieve stress, and drinking in a social setting always heightens whatever mood i may be feeling at that time. What i've learned in my 25 years of life is moderation is the key word here. I know when i shouldn't drink i.e. if i'm mad, or especially if i'm sad or depressed (though unfortunately i still tend to use alcohol as a way to escape issues if i'm sad knowing damn well it doesn't help.. it's an issue but yeah..) I know some people who are a complete mess with drugs, and some who seem to be more level headed and at their best while under the influence. Perhaps it depends on the person and their mindset? The thing is they have to be able to not let the drugs takeover their lives and essence otherwise they risk becoming another junkie. So again moderation is key, and as long as they can partake if they want to but not let it destroy their lives i think it's completely fine.
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  3. #43
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    I do not know what I would do to the person if they did that to my dog.
    Hopefully, nothing.

    Luís Henrique
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  5. #44
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    Really I meant prostution and pornography, drugs, and other activites considered immoral in modern society.
    Ah, you meant "vice" as the opposite of "virtue".

    This isn't actually a very interesting discussion. I don't think we can actually foresee what the morality of a communist society will be. In principle, I believe it will be much more relaxed than the morality of class societies, but the specifics are pretty much unknowable; only when society actually gets rid of an infrastructure framed to enhance exploitation a new morality can actually arise. And no pre-planning will be able to affect that: I may dislike, say, alchoholism, and dream with a communist society that reenacts the 18th ammendment, but if the material reality of communism calls for active drinking by the majority of the population, I will have dreamed in vain (and, conversely, I may dream of a society where drinking is all but mandatory, but if material reality makes alchohol superfluous - which, by the way, seems much more likely - then people won't drink or make alchoholic beverages, and again the blueprint is bogus).

    Luís Henrique
  6. #45
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    Communists seek to create a society which makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like a cloistered convent by comparison.
    No, we don't. We seek to create a society where the property of the means of production is social.

    Luís Henrique
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  8. #46
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    I drink, i smoke pot, it's a good way to relax and relieve stress
    This supposes stress being created first place, isn't it?

    Luís Henrique
  9. #47
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    This supposes stress being created first place, isn't it?

    Luís Henrique
    Yeah, If you look a the reasons why most of us are stressed it's usually the same. Most has to do with our surroundings, finances, fear of losing job, etc. Basically its a product of living in a capitalist society. I'm sure if i weren't dealing with these stresses everyday i probably wouldn't feel the need to smoke pot to calm my nerves and relax, as i'd relax naturally. I mean sure i enjoy the feeling but it's not something i need or desire to feel 24/7. Samething with alcohol, i'd lessen my drinking a lot and you'd only see me personally drinking in social settings if say some friends wanted to have a couple drinks.
    "We carry a new world here, in our hearts. That world is growing this minute."
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    “I am truly free only when all human beings, men and women, are equally free.”
    - Mikhail Bakunin

    "What the news calls economics, I still call it violence. If your God is a judge or a jailer I'm still an atheist."
    - Pat The Bunny
  10. #48
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    I kinda went a little overboard there and no I do not actually support torture. But some of the things that have come out about dog fighting is absolutely disgusting. I love dogs and when I hear about dogs who were defeated being executed by electrocution or family dogs being snatched from backyards it does make me want to get revenge. I do not know what I would do to the person if they did that to my dog.
    its just a dumb dog.
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  12. #49
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    why do people care so much about animals today? lifes hard enough for humans, just have a fucking steak
    "Face the world like a roaring blaze, before all the tears begin to turn silent. Burn down everything that stands in our way. Bang the drum."
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  14. #50
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    No, we don't. We seek to create a society where the property of the means of production is social.

    Luís Henrique
    oh shit, seriously? For real? You're not pulling my leg, are you?
    "Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
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  16. #51
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    In terms of drugs, I support the full legalization and regulation of all drugs right now in the capitalist system. I support legalization because:

    1)This can help to ensure that the drugs used are pure and safe. No laced substances.
    2)Reduce crime by taking away the monopoly of criminals to supply the large demand for drugs present in society
    3)Allow for the government to put drug addicts through rehab, as they are ultimately patients, not criminals
    4)The government can tax the sale of said drugs much in the same way that they do with alcohol, gambling etc. This essentially means tax dollars to be used for all which only come from drug users themselves.
    5)Etc etc etc, many more reasons

    Under socialist rule, my view would not change. I also do not believe that drug use would end with socialist rule. Addiction would certainly decline, but drug use cannot be eradicated.
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  18. #52
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    i basically don't give a fuck about what you crazies do as long as it isn't reactionary

    and when it gets there you should be jailed

    but really who doesn't smoke fat blunts guys don't be all 7th grade and bragging about it
  19. #53
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    Means that communists especially should avoid drinking,drugs and promiscuity to set an example for others.It's been like this since always anyway...
    ARE YOU MAD!?

    Alcohol is awesome, especially after a hard day's work of being a revolutionary....
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  20. #54
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    Alcohol is awesome, especially after a hard day's work of being a revolutionary....
    I'm obviosuly not talking about having a beer or two in the evening,i'm talking about getting drunk a lot.
  21. #55
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    I'm obviosuly not talking about having a beer or two in the evening,i'm talking about getting drunk a lot.
    Either way it does not matter, it is not up to you to determine what I, as a consenting adult, choose to ingest into my body.
  22. #56
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    Either way it does not matter, it is not up to you to determine what I, as a consenting adult, choose to ingest into my body.
    Correct,it's not up to me.It's up to relevant authorities....
  23. #57
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    Correct,it's not up to me.It's up to relevant authorities....
    i eat relevant authorities
  24. #58
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    Correct,it's not up to me.It's up to relevant authorities....
    Elaborate further...please?
    Never say, you weren't warned
    When they come to drag you away
    To silence the dissident hiding in us all
    They clench the fist of ordained might
    From which side of the barbed wire
    Do you want to see your life pass by?
  25. #59
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    Elaborate further...please?
    Your party's ethical committee or "cadre service" or whatever.
  26. #60
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    Political parties have ethical committees!?
    Never say, you weren't warned
    When they come to drag you away
    To silence the dissident hiding in us all
    They clench the fist of ordained might
    From which side of the barbed wire
    Do you want to see your life pass by?

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