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Prostitution is a vice?!
Vice is a good way to release stress?!
Please, what to you mean by "vice"?
Luís Henrique
It means different things to different people. Mine would be alcohol or marijuana. When I get really stressed out it helps me relax. It could be anything from tobacco or coffee to food.
No they don't. They conform more to human needs than with the economic base of the society they exist in. Can you explain exactly how drug use or pornography or alcoholism have changed since feudalism? It is not for nothing that prostitution is called the oldest profession. It has been around for a long time. It is also interesting that you describe my views as ultra-leftist. As far as I am aware, most western Stalinists do not have any sort of medieval views on so-called vices, in spite of the fact that "vices" like homosexuality and abortion were outlawed under Stalinism. I can see how a present-day religious conservative could be attracted to this aspect of Stalinism. However, most Stalinists in the west do not seem to be attracted to Stalinism because of this particular aspect. I am beginning to wonder if you are an exception to this.
was pornography an industry in ancient rome?
were drugs grown, distributed, and made profit on in the fashion they are by cartels and states currently in the Valley of Mexico c. 1680?
You're an fucking dimwit.
I believe that my liberty should end only when your's begins. People's freedom should only end when it begins to infringe upon another person's freedom.
Violence and degenerance are products of material conditions. Creating easy access to abortion, giving financial support to education, and improving living conditions are proven ways of decreasing violence. Thousands of years of evidence point to violence and coercion not being good ways to put an end to violence and coercion.
Avoid it all you like, but stay out of my damn life. I find dog fighting to be repulsive, but think it should be legal, because they are not harming another human, and it's none of my business.
They didn't have photographs or videos in ancient rome, but pornography in the form of statues, paintings, mosiacs, etc.... did exist, and in fact a abundence of them were found perserved in brothels in Pompeii. And yes, drugs were grown and distributed in mesoamerica, but the major differences between then and now, is back then most drugs where viewed religiously and it was a completely different economic system.
You never had a "point" in your rantings as far as I am aware. You have just come here to shout about 'vices' and their supposed connections to ultraleftism. You have not answered whether you, like Stalinists of the 1930s, consider abortion and homosexuality as vices too.
There were no industries in Ancient Rome, but pornography existed nonetheless. Erotic depictions have been a part of human society since the pre-historical times. Recent discoveries have revealed that post-neanderthal humans worshipped an erotic depiction of a woman as a religious figurine. Hence, religion itself has its roots in eroticism. As far as drugs as concerned, hallucinogens have been in use as well for millenia. Also interesting to note that hallucinogens have been used for religious purposes too, in Shamanism and other related religions.
I agreed with everything but this. Forcing defenseless innocent dogs into dog fighting is indeed repulsive. The perpetrators should probably be dealt with the same way that they dealt with the dogs. Torture them and force them to fight to the death.
i didn't ask if drugs pornography prostitution etc. existed historically.
i said, the forms they take change. and that ultimately a lot of the vices and crimes that we deal with under capitalism will change form. as you neatly underlined for me.
i'm for stoning you for western decadence soOriginally Posted by promethean
the violence of the state is a vice that even anarchists are gonna have problems getting rid of
lol no
No it hasn't
But anyway when it comes to drugs in particular, I think context is sort of important. I'm for full decriminalization because 1) the State shouldn't be able to tell me shit about what I do with my body and 2) because decriminalization makes thing a lot easier for people who do have problems with drugs.
I absolutely understand where folks are coming from with the hard line against drugs, though -- especially when one comes from an area that is absolutely inundated with hard drugs. However, targeting the small time dealers and enforcing prohibition isn't really the best way to stop drugs from destroying working class communities. Full decriminalization would deprive the State with the excuse they feel they need to have a militarized police force, and would (or should) divert funds from Law Enforcement towards programs to help people who feel they have a problem with addiction.
At least, this is how it worked in Portugal, where hard drug use has plummeted ever since they did away with their drug laws.
EDIT: maybe I mean legalization
w/e don't care you get what I mean
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
This nasty belief in petty revenge should never be shared by leftists.
Torturing people? Good grief.
Luís Henrique
I don't see why socialists, and people in general, should refrain from 'vice'. As long it doesn't affect the way we work, treat people or our capacity to be revolutionaries, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to drink, smoke or have sex with whomever I like (to a certain extent, obviously, consent and age and other factors come in but that is a different issue).
and put this on TV: Bring back gladiatorial battles!
I think most of you are aware of my position on the "drug issue"
legalization/decreminalization
treat the real problem (drug addiction) rather than criminalize it, which only makes it worse.
"My heart sings for you both. Imagine it singing. la la la la."- Hannah Kay
"if you keep calling average working people idiots i am sure they will be more apt to listen to what you have to say. "-bcbm
"Sometimes false consciousness can be more destructive than apathy, just like how sometimes, doing nothing is actually better than doing the wrong thing."- Robocommie
"The ruling class would tremble, and the revolution would be all but assured." -Explosive Situation, on the Revleft Merry Prankster bus
Communists seek to create a society which makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like a cloistered convent by comparison. I plan to light a fat blunt on the smoldering ruins of the old social order.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
all the mosques and churches will be turned into giant night clubs, and communism will be like a 24/7 mdma high.
we are the sodom and gomhorra of the future
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
I kinda went a little overboard there and no I do not actually support torture. But some of the things that have come out about dog fighting is absolutely disgusting. I love dogs and when I hear about dogs who were defeated being executed by electrocution or family dogs being snatched from backyards it does make me want to get revenge. I do not know what I would do to the person if they did that to my dog.
We probably have different definitions of a state.
Kill anyone who don't let you have the freedom to smoke a blunt.
Really I meant prostution and pornography, drugs, and other activites considered immoral in modern society.
And by the way everyone's responses so far have been quite informative into the minds of other leftists on this issue. I agree that these 'vices' should be legal but regulated to some degree like age limit...for example 18 to be legally able to buy alcoholic beverages.
"O workers' Revolution!... You are the true Messiah!"
Mike Gold, "Jews Without Money"
