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Goli Otok-A Titoist Hell for Marxists
Goli Otok is a barren,horrible island in Croatia(Yugoslavia).
The Titoists turned it into a concentration camp in 1949 where tens of thousands of Marxists were incarcerated and put to unimaginable torture and humiliation.The prisoners were forced to brutally beat each other and those who didn't renounce Marxism and swear loyalty to Tito were beaten in most bestial ways,several times a day,forced to swim in shit and other horrible things.Ex-Nazis were hired as guards.Some 4000 people were killed there.Thousands were sent to G.Otok just for expressing any sympathy for Russia.
It is said that GO was one of the most horrible prisons ever,worse than every GULAG(according to K.Steiner who spent 7000 days in different GULAG camps).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok
Last edited by tir1944; 18th November 2011 at 22:32.
Wait, now we're against locking up Marxists in brutal prison camps? I'm confused. And how do we know that these weren't all traitors, spies and fascists who deserved their fate?
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
Tito sent Stalinists, Ustasha, Chetniks, and other nationalists there. Most got out after a certain amount of time.
it is my opinion that they shouldn't have been released. At least not the Ustasha, Chetniks, and Nationalists.
These people were indeed "traitors" to the Titoist clique,but most of them were honest Marxists who didn't want to betray the whole Communist movement.
"We" are indeed against locking up honest Marxists.
It was founded as a prison for "Stalinists".
Ustashe and co. served as prison guards! They were allowed to torture Communists.V.Dapčević wrote about this in "Ja,Ibeovac" which is free to read on the net.
They were traitors to the idea of brotherhood and unity, and wanted to join Stalinist bullshit. Had we had their way we would have had jack shit to eat, and Yugoslavia would have never been a prosperous nation as it was. Stalins' imperialism and insistence that the Yugoslavs align with him is to blame for the camps existence.
How were they "traitors to the idea of b.&u.,pray tell?
Also they didn't want to "join" anyone,they wanted to fight against the Titoites removing the country from the international communist movement.
This is baseless speculation and nonsense.
Hungary (and some other countries too) was,at least according to the GDP per capita,ahead of SFRY in 1989.
SFRY was hardly prosperous anyway.
No,it's Titoist betrayal that is to blame.
The "international" communist movement was basically operated from Moscow.
GDP doesn't matter, standard of living does. Yugoslavs had a great standard of living.
And 1989? We're talking about TITO's Yugoslavia, not the treacherous fucks who came after him.
Titoist betrayal? because Tito saw that each individual nation should strive towards Communist goals in its own method? Instead of following lock-step with what Moscow had in mind?
So, a comedy about an ex-prisoner from this place was done and became a classic of Yugoslav cinema. Don't you guys think it is of extremely poor taste to joke about this kind of thing?
''...to keep in mind that socialism, since it has become a science, demands that it be pursued as a science, i.e., that it be studied.''
Where should it have been operated from then? Tirana,Prague or Warsaw?
BTW,the headquarters of Informbureau were actually in Belgrade IIRC.
It'be great if we had some data to compare the SOL in SFRY and,let's say Hungary or Bulgaria...
And i don't see how the SFRY had such a great standard of living anyway.Kosovars were living in abject poverty and Bosnia wasn't that better off either.
Titoist "striving towards Communism"=restoration of capitalism under red flags and demagoguery.Titoist betrayal? because Tito saw that each individual nation should strive towards Communist goals in its own method? Instead of following lock-step with what Moscow had in mind?
Yugoslav cinema joked with everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.R.:_M...f_the_Organism
Hahah, You have no idea about how humor works in the Former YU. It doesn't surprise me you may find it a bit tasteless. However in the Balkan nations, nothing is holy when it comes to comedy.
Hollywood has produced tons of most disgusting and vile trash,however,from what i know,they've yet to make a "comedy" mocking an Auschwitz survivor...
I warned you about authoritarian socialism, bro, I told you dog...
When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues.
~John Maynard Keynes
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So really? We should all jump when Stalin says so?
Informbiro had no business being in BG. We did nto want anything to do with Stalinist authoritarianism.
We do, go ask a Bulgarian or Hungarian what he/she thought of Yugoslavia at that time.
I have asked one of my good friends grandmother, a Russian who lived in the Soviet Union and worked as a Chemist and she said the Soviets viewed Yugoslavia as some kind of dream. At one point when visiting they were shocked to see that a waiter at a restaurant had his own car to drive. Amazed that people could travel freely. etc.
Oh, they live much better now I'm sure.
I am from Bosnia, my family is from Bosnia, and it is an undisputable fact that much of the population lived GREAT.
Restoration of Capitalism? Really? Is that what you call factories operated by the workers. Maybe he should have acted more like Stalin? Stalin was a lunatic and it is insane that people even look at him now as anything short of a historical curiosity. HE alone is the reason why Communism is looked at the way it is.
The fact that you titled this thread as "A Titoist hell for Marxists" is really childish and a strawman argument. You are looking to get a reaction so you can feed your delusions of Stalin as a great Marxist.
A stalinist complaining about sending people who disagree to camps to die? what has this world come to?
ВАЛТЕР, AConfusedSocialDemocrat, Aurorus Ruber, Blackscare, Comrade Dracula, farleft, Garret, IndependentCitizen, LeftAtheist, mrmikhail, Nox, Os Cangaceiros, PC LOAD LETTER, Pretty Flaco, Sinister Cultural Marxist, Susurrus, TheGodlessUtopian, thesadmafioso, Thirsty Crow, Tim Cornelis, Tommy4ever, Vladimir Innit Lenin, Yugo45
This thread is laughable.
"Yeah, [my tendency] sent people to labour camps, but they were traitors therefore it was just"
No,but the Titoist clique had no right to betray proletarian internationalism and break with the whole communist movement.
Many did want actually,although UDBA and mass repressions and intimidations took care of that.
Yes,Yugoslavia had the "privilege" to be the "showcase of capitalism" in the "Eastern Block",however they got all that money back,with dividends,in the 80s where Yugoslavia practically collapsed because of the massive foreign debt to the West.
No.
I don't know.How come more than half a million people went to Germany because the unemployment was so high?
Other socialist countries had no unemployment.
No comment.
No,you are.
He had every right to steer the country away from Soviet Imperialism. Because that's what it was. Imperialism. Wrapped in a pretty red banner.
"proletarian internationalism" at that time was basically whatever the Soviet Union decided was the best course of action for its own gain against the west. Stalin's ONLY quarrel with Yugoslavia was that he could never control it. Never. So he did the next best thing, talk shit on it like a child. Because that is all Stalin was. A fucking child that threw tantrums when he got mad. Yugoslavia wasn't going to be intimidated by him so he pouted about it.
No, not that many obviously, since if Stalin had that much support in Yugoslavia he would have forced his way in. Because that is what Stalin knew how to do best. Use force. He didn't want to make the same mistake as the Germans and attack a unified Yugoslavia, where we would have dragged the fight into Bosnia and fought in the mountains for 100 years if need be. (Family members were commanding officers in the units that were preparing for the Soviet attack, the entire strategy that was laid out to them was to drag the Soviets into Bosnian mountains. Where we would win.)
"Showcase of Capitalism?" Yugoslavia was far from being a western capitalist state.
Stop comparing Tito's Yugoslavia to the Yugoslavia that came AFTER him. The debt and whatnot would easily have been paid off had the IMF not purposely set conditions after Tito's death which were impossible to meet without serious problems. They knew it would cause people to struggle to make ends meet and to question the system. The west had much to gain from collapsing Yugoslavia and couldn't wait to do so.
Once again. Yugoslavia AFTER Tito =\= Yugoslavia during Tito. or thew only actual proper socialist Yugoslavia. Was there mass unemployment in the 50s 60s and early 70s? No.
And this is what it basically comes down to. Other communist nations pulled themselves up by the sweat of their own brow, and Yugoslavia made compromises with the West that it had to pay for dearly.
Not that I don't appreciate what Tito did for his country overall (Yugoslavia had every right to forge its own independent path), but I don't appreciate this sectarian bickering, nor this garbage about the rest of the Eastern Bloc consisting of nothing but unwashed savages. The Soviet economy in the 80s was worth USD 2.5 trillion, and per capita income in both the USSR and countries like the GDR was double that of the SFRY.
GDP might not tell the whole story, but the fact of the matter is it's a hell of a lot more objective measure of a country's overall prosperity and human development than the fact of being able to manufacture and partially consume western brands and work for western companies as migrants.
When you have national state and when you have enemies of regime inside of it what do you do? You get rid of them. It's quite simple. Communism has nothing to do with discussion, because Yugoslavia or Soviet Union were not communist or socialist.
And all these anti-revisionist bullshit is quite boring.
"Socialism in one state" is revisionism. Get over it.
Partija Rada (Party of Labour)
