Genetically modified food stuffs

[canikickit]

What is wrong and right with genetically modified foodstuffs?
I don't know. It makes sense to me, there is no "grand order" that we shouldn't break, it isn't disrespecting "God's creation", so what is it doing?

[Soul Rebel]

Genetically modified foods are really bad. They destroy the earth completely and it has ruined peoples lives. Let me see if i can dig up my response to another thread about this....

[BuyOurEverything]

What is wrong and right with genetically modified foodstuffs?
I don't know. It makes sense to me, there is no "grand order" that we shouldn't break, it isn't disrespecting "God's creation", so what is it doing?

I agree. There's nothing at all wrong with genetically modified food in theory and genetic modification is something that we should pursue as a society. The only problem I have, and it is a big one, is that these foods are patented and owned by huge corporations which use them as just another tool of suppressing smaller food producers and fucking over the third world. I also think that they should be tested to see if their safe of course. But unless you're religious I fail to see how you could have any problem with it in theory.

[Soul Rebel]

Ok here is the post i had written in response to the same question. I didnt feel like typing it up again so here goes. The last part is in response to starvation so just ignore that.

Personally i think its a really bad idea. Didnt you hear the about the devestation GM food had on farmers in India? They basically committed mass suicide due to the GM seeds they used. Heres the story: About 2 years ago American companies sent GM seeds over to Third World countries. These poor people were told that these seeds were great: that they would grow a ton of food, etc. They of course believed it and took the seeds. The planted them and their crops grew. However, when the time came to plant more the company would not give them any. They were told that they had to buy them now!!! And of course they couldnt afford it. So these farmeres tried to grow the crops they were originally growing. However, the land was damaged and so nothing grew. The farmers were desprete- they had to feed their families and pay their landlords, but they couldnt cuz they had no money because nothing was growing. So as a result many farmers ended up selling off their wives to their landlords and then committing suicide. Hundreds of farmers killed themselves because they were basically fucked over by U.S. companies and their GM crops.

As an environmentalist i also think it is a bad idea. I will only buy organic fruits and veggies because they are better for the earth, healthier, and taste better.

Seriously, its been proven and suggested many times: if everyone turned to a vegetarian diet, the world's starvation problems would be solved. There are many reasons for this: 1) it takes less land to grow veggies, soy, and fruit- so more could be grown and distributed 2) instead of using tons of grains and water to feed animals which are then slaughtered for human consumption, the grains and water would be used for human consumption 3) non-vegetarian diets are actually more expensive, meaning that those who are poor cannot afford meats and dairy that the rich and middle class eat. Meat and dairy are expensive and so not everyone can afford it. It is expensive because of the time and material put into the cattle. See what i am getting at?

[canikickit]

Originally posted by BuyOurEverything@Nov 8 2003, 03:19 AM
The only problem I have, and it is a big one, is that these foods are patented and owned by huge corporations which use them as just another tool of suppressing smaller food producers

Multinationals Take Out Patents on "Terminator Seeds"

It's not only the genetically modified food which is being patented:

Similarly, thanks to the 1994 Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights under the World Trade Organization (TRIPs-WTO), monopolies like the Texas-based RiceTec can claim patented use of jasmine and basmati rice, which have been developed over 1,000 years by Indian and Thai farmers.

I don't have a problem with the modification of food, only the effects which we see. Whether these are inextricably linked or not, I don't know.

[BuyOurEverything]

Personally i think its a really bad idea. Didnt you hear the about the devestation GM food had on farmers in India? They basically committed mass suicide due to the GM seeds they used. Heres the story: About 2 years ago American companies sent GM seeds over to Third World countries. These poor people were told that these seeds were great: that they would grow a ton of food, etc. They of course believed it and took the seeds. The planted them and their crops grew. However, when the time came to plant more the company would not give them any. They were told that they had to buy them now!!! And of course they couldnt afford it. So these farmeres tried to grow the crops they were originally growing. However, the land was damaged and so nothing grew. The farmers were desprete- they had to feed their families and pay their landlords, but they couldnt cuz they had no money because nothing was growing. So as a result many farmers ended up selling off their wives to their landlords and then committing suicide. Hundreds of farmers killed themselves because they were basically fucked over by U.S. companies and their GM crops.

Yes, well that's a result of the corporations' actions. Capitalism, lies, deciet and greed was responsible for that and GMOs were just used as another tool to fuck over poor people.

As an environmentalist i also think it is a bad idea. I will only buy organic fruits and veggies because they are better for the earth, healthier, and taste better.

You could have organic GMOs, couldn't you? Just don't use chemicals.

[Soul Rebel]

I dont think so. If its organic, depending on its label (each organic food has a specific label depending on how organic it is), it of course cannot be grown with pesticides or be tampered with in any way, which would include genetically modifying it because then the food would not be growing how its suppose to be growing, get what im saying? So no i dont think you can have organic GMO's.

[BuyOurEverything]

I dont think so. If its organic, depending on its label (each organic food has a specific label depending on how organic it is), it of course cannot be grown with pesticides or be tampered with in any way, which would include genetically modifying it because then the food would not be growing how its suppose to be growing, get what im saying? So no i dont think you can have organic GMO's.

Well that would all depend on your definition of 'how it's supposed to.' If you grow GMO food naturally and don't use any chemicals, what's not organic about that? I mean, plants' DNA has constantly changed due to evolution and plants are being grown in environments completely foreign to their original ones. As long as the food is tested and deemed safe, the only possible objection one could have would be a moral one (ie we mere mortals shouldn't tamper with god's work etc. etc. blah vblah blah.)

[BuyOurEverything]

I don't have a problem with the modification of food, only the effects which we see. Whether these are inextricably linked or not, I don't know.

Capitalism uses everything to fuck people over. Poor people die all the time because corporations own the patents for drugs that could have saved their lives but made their prices unaffordable. Does this mean we should abolish perscription drugs? Of course not.

[pedro san pedro]

no, you cant be ge and orgainc. all of the worlds certifers have come out on this point.

ge has its place, and that is confined to the lab for medical purposes.

there is no need for ge in agriculture. studies have already shown that crop yeild is less in ge crops -see the soil and health ass uk report, 2001 (2?) )- than conventional.
ge wont feed the world -we already produe enough food to feed the world 1 !/2 times over (WHO stat). givi ng monasanto control of our food supply will only worsen world hunger, as described above.

profit drives this technolgy, and around 90% of ge crops are grown by monsanto -the wonderful guys that bought us agent orange, and are currently producing round up. this means that ge allows more poison on our lands.
the results of the uk feild trials are quite damning in this respect. these were carried ou t over four years, by the english govt -which is very pro ge. the results found that 2 out of 3 crops were more harmful to then local environment than their convential counterparts.

as for eating the food -no long term studies have ever been conducted into the health effects of eating ge. a large amont of the poples population eat foods containing gmo's, but due to lax labelling laws, have no choice in the matter. effectively consumers are part of a mass experiment conducted by stealth.

i am completely opposed to ge in our food or natural environment, and am propbably a bit to tispy to fully articulate this. but i urge all on the left to oppose this technolgy. it as the potential to give the cappies conrtrol of the very food we eat, without our consent. it damages the environment, rises prices, leads to further monoculture, and once its released, it out for good

[BuyOurEverything]

no, you cant be ge and orgainc. all of the worlds certifers have come out on this point.

Obviously pandering to the millions of people worldwide who oppose GMOs. Organic is just a word, there is no absolute concrete definition of it. What's the point of organic food? My view is that it provides safe, chemical free food. If GM food could be proven safe and no chemicals were used in its growing, what's the problem?

there is no need for ge in agriculture. studies have already shown that crop yeild is less in ge crops -see the soil and health ass uk report, 2001 (2?) )- than conventional.

See, to make a statement that disgustingly broad, the would have had to test all (or at least most) of all GM crops that have ever been and ever will be created.

profit drives this technolgy, and around 90% of ge crops are grown by monsanto -the wonderful guys that bought us agent orange, and are currently producing round up

That's obvious but if you use that as justification to oppose GMOs, then I would expect you to similarily oppose all technology. So get off the computer.

the results found that 2 out of 3 crops were more harmful to then local environment than their convential counterparts.

First of all, if just 2/3 of them were more damaging to the environment than regular ones, that's hardly a reason to ban them all. Also, just how damaging to the environment are conventional crops? That statement seems to imply that they are at least somewhat damaging, sometimes even more so than GMOs so why don't you oppose the growing of all crops?

as for eating the food -no long term studies have ever been conducted into the health effects of eating ge. a large amont of the poples population eat foods containing gmo's

Correct, and this is one of the main problems with them

but due to lax labelling laws, have no choice in the matter. effectively consumers are part of a mass experiment conducted by stealth.

If they were properly tested, there wouldn't really be a need for labelling. How many people do you know that check the label of their milk to make sure it's not homogeonized?

but i urge all on the left to oppose this technolgy

Why? Now it is owned by corporations and used as another tool fuck people over but it doesn't have to be used like that. Corporations own pretty much everything, are you likewise opposed to food, books, movies, cars, computers, electronics, medicine and basically everything else that exists today?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I am leery of GM foods... here are my basic reasons:

1. They are potentially dangerous to humans. There was a study suppressed in the UK recently about GM potatoes, I believe. Lab rats who ate them grew abnormally undersized organs (I remember the liver was mentioned). No impartial groups are doing publicized studies of this, and we all know that company studies are not to be blindly trusted.

2. They are potentially harmful to the environment. There is concern that certain hybrids can break down, and badly contaminate the fields. An example I read was that there were plants with a built-in antibiotic of sorts. When the plant died, it biodegraded, and spread the antibiotic into the soil. This can proceed to kill the bacteria that keep soil alive and well... sterilizing the land. Scary stuff.

3. A handful of giant corporations can easily monopolize the seeds, which can lead to a massive inflation in price of food. Any opportunity to be gouged by capitalists should be opposed by leftists, yes?

[BuyOurEverything]

I am leery of GM foods... here are my basic reasons:

1. They are potentially dangerous to humans. There was a study suppressed in the UK recently about GM potatoes, I believe. Lab rats who ate them grew abnormally undersized organs (I remember the liver was mentioned). No impartial groups are doing publicized studies of this, and we all know that company studies are not to be blindly trusted.

2. They are potentially harmful to the environment. There is concern that certain hybrids can break down, and badly contaminate the fields. An example I read was that there were plants with a built-in antibiotic of sorts. When the plant died, it biodegraded, and spread the antibiotic into the soil. This can proceed to kill the bacteria that keep soil alive and well... sterilizing the land. Scary stuff.

3. A handful of giant corporations can easily monopolize the seeds, which can lead to a massive inflation in price of food. Any opportunity to be gouged by capitalists should be opposed by leftists, yes?

I agree to some extent but the same could be said for, say chemicals. Some chemicals can harm people or the environment. Should we ban all chemicals of every kind everywhere and ban further research into chemicals?

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by BuyOurEverything@Nov 9 2003, 05:07 PM
I agree to some extent but the same could be said for, say chemicals. Some chemicals can harm people or the environment. Should we ban all chemicals of every kind everywhere and ban further research into chemicals?

Good point. I think we should take a much closer look at the chemicals we are using. If they are potentially killing people for minor gains, then yes, they should be banned.

[BuyOurEverything]

I think we should take a much closer look at the chemicals we are using. If they are potentially killing people for minor gains, then yes, they should be banned.

I agree but that wasn't really my point. The fact that SOME GMOs or chemicals may be harmful to people or the environment doesn't mean that GMOs or chemicals in general are bad and should be banned, it just means that those specific ones should be banned, or at least have their use restricted.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I never said all GMOs should be banned. I suggest that we need to study them much, much more. We need studies not being financed by the companies that stand to profit from them. There is great potential for danger in GMOs, but there may be equal potential for achievement.

[toastedmonkey]

GM crops do have the advantage of produce higher yields and more resistance to infections and herbicides, but if they cross pollinate with weeds then the weeds gain a resistance to the herbicides so farmers cant kill the weeds off so they compete with the crops for light and nutrients and the crop yield therefore decreases in the long run even tho there is a short term gain.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Interesting example, tm...

GM crops seem to be double-edged crops--their strengths can easily be devastating weaknesses... all the more reason to review them severely and objectively before we expose the entire planet to them...

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by SenoraChe@Nov 8 2003, 03:25 AM
Ok here is the post i had written in response to the same question. I didnt feel like typing it up again so here goes. The last part is in response to starvation so just ignore that.

Personally i think its a really bad idea. Didnt you hear the about the devestation GM food had on farmers in India? They basically committed mass suicide due to the GM seeds they used. Heres the story: About 2 years ago American companies sent GM seeds over to Third World countries. These poor people were told that these seeds were great: that they would grow a ton of food, etc. They of course believed it and took the seeds. The planted them and their crops grew. However, when the time came to plant more the company would not give them any. They were told that they had to buy them now!!! And of course they couldnt afford it. So these farmeres tried to grow the crops they were originally growing. However, the land was damaged and so nothing grew. The farmers were desprete- they had to feed their families and pay their landlords, but they couldnt cuz they had no money because nothing was growing. So as a result many farmers ended up selling off their wives to their landlords and then committing suicide. Hundreds of farmers killed themselves because they were basically fucked over by U.S. companies and their GM crops.

As an environmentalist i also think it is a bad idea. I will only buy organic fruits and veggies because they are better for the earth, healthier, and taste better.

I'm sorry Seniora, I'm not trying to belittle your point or anything, but all I have heard about GM products is that "they're bad", that's it. How EXACTLY was the land o these indian farmers used, more damaged by the GM products than it would have been by organic products.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

i am most wary of genetically modified foods getting loose and growing in the wild, where they might threaten natural species. All it takes is one loose seed...