KKE's explanation of their violence

[Manic Impressive]

I would like to discuss and analyse the response of the KKE to the violence on Thursday. The arguments over whether PAME were justified in blocking the anarchists and other workers from approaching parliament is getting us nowhere. So instead of carrying on the tit for tat insults from the other two threads perhaps we could focus on the implications of the KKE response.
http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/20...us-attack-info

It seems to me that the KKE response was very unhelpful to the situation by painting the anarchists as agents of the state, murderers, fascists and all round evil people. This seems to only serve the purpose of inciting more violence something which they claim to have wanted to avoid.

[FONT=Arial Narrow]Certain international bourgeois media sought to present the aforementioned incidents as a conflict between two ideological-political currents inside the people’s movement. This approach has nothing to do with reality since in Greece it is well-known that these groups which appear under the cover of the black colour, the hood, “anarchism” are organized and staffed by the forces of the bourgeois system and include everything from organized hooligans of football teams, to hired thugs from night clubs, members of neo-Nazi organizations and forces of security services. There is a lot of evidence from the recent past (photographs and videos) that show the relations of these groups with the mechanisms of the system. They are murderous groups which serve the bourgeois system and have no relation with the people’s movement. They are unleashed by the system itself in order to organize provocations (like the burning of the bank on 5/5/2010 where three employees died) and provide a pretext to the security forces so as to use the equipment they possess in order to disperse the mass people’s demonstrations.[/FONT]

Language like this seems to be laying the groundwork for further political suppression if they actually managed to gain control of the state. It would not be too hard to imagine purges against anarchists and any other political opponents if this is the way the KKE feels about socialists.

Thoughts?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Don't start another thread,instead post this here
http://www.revleft.com/vb/kkes-actio...088/index.html

[Manic Impressive]

Actually I'd like this thread to be about a specific subject, the KKE response. As I've already explained the current threads are not suitable for that purpose.

[Искра]

I'm sorry, but I don't see a point of discussing this. This is classical predictable answer in good ol' Stalinist rethoric - who's not with us is a fascist. This discussion will soon become troll's valley.

[Manic Impressive]

I'm sorry, but I don't see a point of discussing this. This is classical predictable answer in good ol' Stalinist rethoric - who's not with us is a fascist.

And you don't think it's worth exposing this and talking about it?

This discussion will soon become troll's valley.

Like the other thread isn't?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Oh and what "Ultra-Left Scum" think is

Someone tells his honest opinion about a subject= He is trolling.

Well done,guys,well done.

[Delenda Carthago]

I would like to discuss and analyse the response of the KKE to the violence on Thursday. The arguments over whether PAME were justified in blocking the anarchists and other workers from approaching parliament is getting us nowhere. So instead of carrying on the tit for tat insults from the other two threads perhaps we could focus on the implications of the KKE response.
http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/20...us-attack-info

It seems to me that the KKE response was very unhelpful to the situation by painting the anarchists as agents of the state, murderers, fascists and all round evil people. This seems to only serve the purpose of inciting more violence something which they claim to have wanted to avoid.
Language like this seems to be laying the groundwork for further political suppression if they actually managed to gain control of the state. It would not be too hard to imagine purges against anarchists and any other political opponents if this is the way the KKE feels about socialists.

Thoughts?

Its awful. They started accusing the rioters of being connected with neonazis along with anarchists and undercover cops. Not even they dont believe that stuff. Not that undercover cops are not a part of the game, but I find it apolitical to blaim it on them for something that should be strictly political.

The most fucked up thing for me, is that both sides lie so fucking much about many things that the converstation tends to become about something else other than the incident by itself.

[Искра]

And you don't think it's worth exposing this and talking about it?

It is, but most of people will get the point after they read the statemant. Others, will try to defend it at all costs... and here we go.

[RedSide]

KKE rhetoric is boring tbh and I didn't like their response during Thursday. Everyone from KKE that had the chance to talk to the media (or this announcement) was subpar. Accusing everyone is wrong though some things mentioned by them are true. I was really disappointed when Papariga decided to talk with the "journalist" scum Makis Triantafylopoulos.

I think we have to wait a few days, and see what will be the reaction of KKE. Atm there is an escalation by anachists attacking kne members in universities, or burning three KKE offices here in Thessaloniki.

[FSL]

It seems to me that the KKE response was very unhelpful to the situation by painting the anarchists as agents of the state, murderers, fascists and all round evil people.

When in reality they're part of the workers' movement and one might say the revolutions' vanguard. Each and everyone of them is worth a thousand ordinary workers thus giving them the right to do as they please at all times.


Won't hurt if I post it here too.

Removed by Blackscare.

[Blackscare]

When in reality they're part of the workers' movement and one might say the revolutions' vanguard. Each and everyone of them is worth a thousand ordinary workers thus giving them the right to do as they please at all times.


Won't hurt if I post it here too.

This is a warning for spam posting. Don't post the same exact things across multiple threads, it clutters things up. The OP explicitly said she/he wanted this to be a separate discussion.

[Susurrus]

"anarcho-fascist groups" Are they even fucking serious? They're pulling their insults(and their mindset) from the 1940s. I wonder how long until they start quoting back-issues of Pravda for evidence.

[khad]

"anarcho-fascist groups" Are they even fucking serious? They're pulling their insults(and their mindset) from the 1940s.

It is a fact that nationalist groups did participate in the riot. You can clearly see Greek national flags being waved in the ranks of the "anarchists."

Whether that fact is relevant or not in justifying or explaining the confrontation that day is another matter altogether.

[Manic Impressive]

When in reality they're part of the workers' movement and one might say the revolutions' vanguard. Each and everyone of them is worth a thousand ordinary workers thus giving them the right to do as they please at all times.

I genuinely had no idea Marxist-Leninists felt that way about workers.

I would put it to you that it would be in the interests of the KKE to attempt to defuse the situation by admitting that violence was a mistake. Even if they did not admit any fault on their part, they could have tried to prevent further violence from occurring. But instead they seem to be encouraging violence against other groups, surely this could hurt them in the long run?

[FSL]

This is a warning for spam posting. Don't post the same exact things across multiple threads, it clutters things up. The OP explicitly said she/he wanted this to be a separate discussion.

It *shows* that the supposed KKE's violence was an answer to attacks, attacks by the same few hundred people that feel it is their duty to ravage any demonstration, it was an answer by PAME which is a coalition of unions that organized the strike and an answer that had everyone's backing.


Don't you think it's a little bit relevant when everyone's throwing titles that amount to no less than propaganda and accusations pulled right out their ass?
Posting something that is actually helpful and gives insight to the minds of thousands people who were on the spot (not "hooded youth", workers) in two different threads constitutes spamming?
But "KKE's violence", "KKE's cooperation with the police" etc being thrown around everywhere is what, honest reporting?


Are you sure you're being objective?

[ModelHomeInvasion]

Quoting myself from the other thread:

I love how the Anarchists and the Red liberals here are so quick to assume from afar that the KKE were "defending the Greek parliament from thousands of revolutionary workers". In a common yet pathetic twist, they become exactly what it is they accuse the KKE of being - "defenders of the ruling class".

We (those of us who live outside of Greece) are in absolutely no position to condemn nor praise the KKE for the violence that erupted the other day. The incident that many of you are so quick to provide an unwanted, uninformed opinion of was not large enough (and not documented well enough) to provide Us, the international community, with any real clarity (unfortunately this is the case for so many other examples as well).

[Susurrus]

It is a fact that nationalist groups did participate in the riot. You can clearly see Greek national flags being waved in the ranks of the "anarchists."

Whether that fact is relevant or not in justifying or explaining the confrontation that day is another matter altogether.

Perhaps so, I didn't know that, but that still is a wrong name to call it, implying that the anarchists themselves are also fascists. It's like back when they used to call Trotskyists fascists because the nazis also opposed the USSR, therefore anyone who opposes the USSR is a crypto-fascist. Bullshit logic around a warped splinter of truth.

[Manic Impressive]

It *shows* that the supposed KKE's violence was an answer to attacks, attacks by the same few hundred people that feel it is their duty to ravage any demonstration, it was an answer by PAME which is a coalition of unions that organized the strike and an answer that had everyone's backing.


Don't you think it's a little bit relevant when everyone's throwing titles that amount to no less than propaganda and accusations pulled right out their ass?
Posting something that is actually helpful and gives insight to the minds of thousands people who were on the spot (not "hooded youth", workers) in two different threads constitutes spamming?
But "KKE's violence", "KKE's cooperation with the police" etc being thrown around everywhere is what, honest reporting?

We can talk about whether the KKE were justified or not in the other thread although I think people's minds are already made up and won't be changed. Instead of proportioning blame I'd prefer to talk about the aftermath, the reaction and the how this will effect the movement as a whole.

[FSL]

I genuinely had no idea Marxist-Leninists felt that way about workers.

I would put it to you that it would be in the interests of the KKE to attempt to defuse the situation by admitting that violence was a mistake. Even if they did not admit any fault on their part, they could have tried to prevent further violence from occurring. But instead they seem to be encouraging violence against other groups, surely this could hurt them in the long run?

Violence will come because that is the choise of the rulling class, which is aiming to terrorize workers by using hooded thugs.
You can accept that and "step aside" or not accept that and fight back.


There have been half a dozen attacks in party offices, during the past two nights, communist posters were torn apart in a number of universities and a member of the Communist Youth (in its CC) had threatening slogans written outside his house.

There is nothing to "avoid" here.

[PhoenixAsh]

It is a fact that nationalist groups did participate in the riot. You can clearly see Greek national flags being waved in the ranks of the "anarchists."

Whether that fact is relevant or not in justifying or explaining the confrontation that day is another matter altogether.

Those were images of the do not pay movement.