Worse than Czarism?
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Do you support the Soviet Union?
I see a lot of Soviet imagery here in this forum.
I have a simple question. Do you know what that symbol means to actual Russian people? It is a symbol of the worst period of our history.
It represents the ideology that destroyed Russia economically, imprisoned millions of Russians and killed millions more. And that's not counting the numbers that died in Soviet wars.
Do you just use it because it looks cool to you? Because I really don't see any difference between the hammer and sickle and the swastika.
I'm not asking whether you support communism or not. I'm asking if you think it's cool to spit on the memory of the millions of Russians killed by the hammer and sickle.
Worse than Czarism?
"All immediatists [. . .] want to get rid of society and put in its place a particular group of workers. This group they choose from the confines of one of the various prisons which constitute the bourgeois society of 'free men' i.e. the factory, the trade, the territorial or legal patch. Their entire miserable effort consists in telling the non-free, the non-citizens, the non-individuals [. . .] to envy and imitate their oppressors: be independent! free! be citizens! people! In a word: be bourgeois!" -Amadeo Bordiga, "Fundamentals of Revolutionary Communism"
I assume you're a Pamyat (or some other national-extremnist organization) member.Right?
Yes and Stalin was voted the 3rd most popular Russian recently.
Sure as hell was better than Russia under bloody Czars or Yeltsin/Putin yoke.
Yeah,shame most historians or ordinary Russians don't agree with you but hey...
Bang your head against the wall 50 times,maybe it'll get into your head.
RAWWWWWWWWWWR Stalin killed puppies rawm whram
It's you who's spitting on the memory of millions who went to battle with "Za Rodinu,za Stalina!" on their lips.
Last edited by tir1944; 18th October 2011 at 01:44.
Yes. Communism bled Russia dry, eroded our culture, tried its hardest to stomp out our religion. It stole our property, enslaved us and called it progress.
A Tsar was still there, he just had a different title and became more brutal.
While I can't comment on what these symbols mean to Russians (though I speculate that most Russians probably do not share your cynicism), I do find it interesting that Stalin was voted the third most popular Russian in history, that a poll done in 2002 found that in a Presidential election where the dead could run, Andropov would finish first and Brezhnev would finish second (Stalin in the top 5). Also, the USSR was the third largest economy, if not the second at times, and after the Soviet Union collapsed Russia slipped down to like 13th...
Not a big fan of the USSR myself, but by any objective measures standards of living seemed to have been much higher than they are in Russia today.
[FONT=Arial]"Can a brother get a little peace?
There's war in the streets
and a war in the middle east.
Instead of a war on poverty,
they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me"[/FONT]
You say it's the worst period in your history and yet most Russians (native, not immigrant) would rather have it than the current system, according to most polls I've seen.
But I'm not saying that I like anything about the USSR post-Lenin. Revleft has a variety of socialist points of view represented.
Take your assumptions somewhere else.
I suppose the bread lines, empty stores, useless paychecks and full scale economic collapse are all just figments of my imagination. Life in the USSR was all happiness and joy and carebear love, of course.
Oh, pardon me for saying anything for the wonderful Georgian demigod Stalin who purged millions of Russians. Excuse me for "spitting on the memory" of Russians who were conscripted to fight in hellish conditions for his agenda, and upon returning home (IF they returned home) were treated like paupers.
Fuck Stalin and fuck you. He was a dictator and if you honestly think he was good for Russia, you deserve to die in a gulag.
Your fucking Tzar sacrificed millions in WW1 for the benefit of Paris and London stock exchanges.
Lol before communism most people couldn't even read.The wise Tzar didn't really care about schools and culture,innit?
Boo-hoo.What a tragedy,eh?
Who stole what property?
Who enslaved who?
In good old Tzarist Russia there was still MEDIEVAL FEUDALISM in the countryside.
From a wooden plough to nuclear weapons...
Sure.
Started to get really bad only in the 70s-especially the 80s when CAPITALIST SCUM Gorbachov and his clique took the power.
Oh please shut the fuck up.
The Germans destroyed half of the country.By the end of the war a huge part of population lived in dug-out shelters.Why do i have to teach you about your country's history?
You too.
Yeah i do and so do millions of Russians,especially those who still remember what was it like back then.Certainly better than the SHITHOLE Russia has turned into the last 20-25 years...
Ever hear of "war communism"? Ever hear of labor camps? Ever hear of death tolls that make the holocaust look like child's play?
Sure we got nuclear weapons and technological progress, but it was all at the expense of the Russian people who lived in constant fear of saying anything about the Government. Ever read The Gulag Archipelago? Ever wonder why Igor Talkov was so popular?
But tell me, what do YOU know about the Soviet Union? My entire family is from there. They lived in it, not read about it in a history book or some leftist website. I'll tell you what, it wasn't a utopia. The country was essentially a prison.
Yawn
Oh, really? How so? I've looked around, suddenly stores have, get this, food on their shelves! A capitalist hell, I tell you.
Communism is designed to take and take and take, but somehow it stops when it comes time to give anything back.
Case in point. The Government, on paper, said it supported large families (more than 4 children) with a monthly payment to encourage the population to rise.
You know how much they payed? 7 Rubles. 7 fucking rubles a month.
Every heard of lying?
I know a bit about the subject,don't you worry.
Also Solzhenitsyn personally experienced the GULAG yet he claimed that no less than 60(!) million people died there.
I just wanted to draw attention to that eloquent point.
FKA Vacant
"snook up behind him and took his koran, he said sumthin about burnin the koran. i was like DUDE YOU HAVE NO KORAN and ran off." - Jacob Isom, Amarillo Resident.
You had them back then too.
Don't be such a liar.
Also,durak,how many Russians are living in poverty today? How many can't afford that food? How come the people don't have HEATING in certain towns? How come there are thousands of street-children?
How come the Russian society has degenerated in a way no one could even have imagined 30 years ago?
Cool story.
Tell me you had to pay for the kindergarten too?
An honest question; what are your politics, ProudRussian?
FKA Vacant
"snook up behind him and took his koran, he said sumthin about burnin the koran. i was like DUDE YOU HAVE NO KORAN and ran off." - Jacob Isom, Amarillo Resident.
Oh, I get it. When someone questions the numbers killed in the holocaust, he is an evil nazi hatemonger.Every heard of lying?
I know a bit about the subject,don't you worry.
Also Solzhenitsyn personally experienced the GULAG yet he claimed that no less than 60(!) million people died there.
Questioning the numbers killed in purges, of course, is completely alright. It must have been what, 5 people tops? Yes, 60 million is a high estimate. However, 20 million is the general consensus. Over three times what Hitler killed in the holocaust.
Go shove a hammer up your ass. If you just assume that people are lying when they talk about the people the USSR killed, you're a fucktard who can't get it through his thick fucking skull that the USSR was not a magical communist utopia.
Why do you think eastern Europe and Russia are poor? Because they're still recovering from the damage that communism did to them. The stupid, inefficient bureaucratic clusterfuck that was the Soviet Union, did that to them.
There's a reason we have a saying. "Russia is a very rich country. They've been robbing her for 70 years and still haven't stolen everything."
And the USSR wasn't an isolated example. Care to explain why North Korea is such a shithole compared to capitalist South Korea?
For the most part, I'm apolitical. I favor freedom above all else, so anarchism is a logical choice. I don't consider myself an anarchist, however, because that's just not feasible on any scale.
The poverty in the RF is because economies don't just bounce back after a total collapse. If it had been capitalist from the start, they would have easily been richer than America and western Europe today. Please don't pretend poverty is something new in Russia, it was alive and well in the Soviet Union too.
c'mon. you cant be apolitical and then take a political stance against somethimg.
theres gotta be some sort of general political philosophy that you harbor beyond 'freedom'
FKA Vacant
"snook up behind him and took his koran, he said sumthin about burnin the koran. i was like DUDE YOU HAVE NO KORAN and ran off." - Jacob Isom, Amarillo Resident.
More than just Jews were in the Holocaust. Try 11 million, not counting the killed Soviet Citizens. North korean had a better standard of living for a long time. Not defending North Korea's brutal regime though.
