Easy, drop the work week to 30 hours, lower the retirement age, and put in a co-determination law, and then also have government grants to unemployed coops, with those things unemployment is gone.
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How would a Socialist state reduce unemployment ?
How would a Socialist state reduce unemployment ?
Easy, drop the work week to 30 hours, lower the retirement age, and put in a co-determination law, and then also have government grants to unemployed coops, with those things unemployment is gone.
LOL
Unemployement will never be gone within capitalist system. It's like saying I'll jump from the plane but I'll never hit the ground. Unemployement is one of the weapons of "class power" of ruling class. So, if you want to get rid of unemployement you need to destroy capitalism and state. Still, there will allways be some kinds of an unemployement even in proletarian dictatorship or fruther, so it's up to people to experiment from their real life situation how to solve that problem. We can only imagine. But it's important to emphesize that with destruction of capitalist relations within the society and market (economy) unemployement will be greatly reduced.
There's a good post by robbo203. Employment only makes sense if there is an employer and an employee, and thus class society.
A socialist state is an oxymoron in my book since socialism for me is classless and stateless. What you are talking about is a capitalist state filled with nice pictures of Marx and Lenin. You can also call it national-capitalism according to Engels:
The 'socialist state' will probably reduce unemployment by employing people to non-existing jobs or by making 2 people share 1 job. This is more to hide unemployment than actually getting rid of it though.
Unemployment is the result of the labour market in which workers compete for jobs, some win and are employed, some lose and remain unemployed. The labour market on its turn is the result of profit seeking and profit maximalisation by the capitalist. A capitalist cannot hire all the workers seeking employment because his profits would fall.
Socialism is the abolition of markets and profits, therefore unemployment will not exist. The socialist state--if there is going to be one--does not have to reduce unemployment.
Yes,what previous posters said.
Socialist countries of the past (Except Yugoslavia lol) never had any unemployment-everyone who wanted to work could find a job.
Well done Gacky, you've shown how they ruined many a European economy. The equation does not work.
Taxes raised on work pay for pensions, government grants etc- by lowering the working week and the retirement age (coupled with an aging population in Europe) you've actually created a potential public spending deficit.
How about stopping outsourcing production to exploit cheap labour elsewhere as a starter and stopping "free trade" being used as an economic excuse for dumping?
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Thats not at all how they ruined the European economy, Germany is doing fine, france is doing much better, Norway is doing fine, these are the ones that did the policies I'm talking about.
What happened with greece was that credit froze up for them and they did'nt have a proper tax collection system.
If you have a proper tax collection system Greece would'nt have the problem it has today, if it did'nt privatize everything in the whole country they would have had some productive industry income.
You lower the work week, people that are unemployed come into the economy and thus PAY TAXES, actually increasing, and lowering hte work week does'nt take any income from the government, it takes it from the private capitalist becuase they have to hire more people, and there is higher demand.
As far as lowering hte retirement age, you pay for that by having a tax collection system, which would actually get more money since ther eare more people working and thus paying taxes.
Tarriffs, taxing trade, Co-determination would stop that, having laws giving the local community some say over the indsutrial sector in that commmunity (like Germany).
There is no such thing as unemployment in Socialism, the word is strictly a product of Capitalism.
Here's an idea: Here in America, we will need to appropriate $2.2 trillion to modernize our aging infrastructure. We could also use a Green New Deal to secure our global leadership in the production and distribution of solar, wind, geothermal, biomass and hydro energy.
An estimated 5 million jobs could be created if we eliminated our reliance on imported fossil fuels. (I.e. Transitioning to Clean Energy, maximizing ethanol production, investing in mass-transportation, offering tax rebates for hybrids and electric automobiles) We could allow off-shore oil and gas drilling that is state owned and monitored (thus preventing oil spills) and we could reopen coal mines under a National Coal Board to provide for Chinese and Indian Demand.
Close the Educational and Medical Gaps: Hundreds of thousands of teachers and nurses are needed in the educational and medical fields. Nursing homes are understaffed. Hospitals are understaffed. Schools are understaffed. We should provide Americans with a universal higher education (I.e. Abolish Tuition and Book Fees) and offer a sigh-on bonus for those pursuing nursing and teaching.
Last edited by RichardAWilson; 17th October 2011 at 12:50.
BTW comrademan, your analysis of the Greek crisis is rediculous. The Greeks, like many other nations, had tons and tons of money from their pensions, their government funds and so on in Credit default swaps and CDOs and other instruments international investment banks used and had rating agenceis LIE ABOUT to get money from the countries and pension funds and so on, they were heavily indebt sure, but this had more to do with the fact that there basically was no tax collection system, and this bullshit about them being "lazy," is as stupid as saying the problem was the bankers were "greedy" it was systemic problems. Greece, Ireland and so on liberalized the banking system and it came back to screw them.
The same thing could have easily happened to the United States had they not had the financial power they had.
Thanks for your answers.
Thanks for your answers.
I agree Unemployement will always exist in Capitalist nations.
I agree Unemployement will always exist in Capitalist nations.
Depends on how you define socialist state, but if its like many of the revolutionaries on this board then it simply wont exist. Why? Because there is no need for a reserve army of the unemployed, to work as competitors for those who have a job (so you can fire them if they get troublesome or demand a higher wage).
In socialism. everyone will be taken care of and everyone can exert themselves to the extent they are capable of and desire with perhaps a minimum instated in times of scarcity, the minimum can be enforced through saying 'if you work less than X [even though you are able to], we give you X less, or nothing at all. This minimum should be established freely by the community, without interference from higher organs).
A nice example is how before the spanish revolution workers of the CNT succesfully resisted the splitting up in to different lumber mills of one big one. Though more efficient for the capitalist, this would mean unemployment and poverty for the people who lived near the big lumber mill. After the revolution, when the workers took over the lumber mill, they split it into smaller ones! They just arranged for the people who would have gone unemployed to find a job elsewhere, or in any case that they would not become poorer.
Perhaps this is more like anarchism and communism im talking about. If so: fuck socialism!
Work is a necessary evil, it is only in societies as fucked up as this one that there is the rule:
there is only one thing worse than having a job, its being unemployed.
ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!
Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks
'Engels, my brother from another class,
we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.
holler,
marxy.'
- BCBM=AndreasBaader
I have a question myself, one i've been wondering for a while now and since it's related to this one I see a good chance to ask it here:
Okay, first of all, correct me if my interpretation of socialism is wrong here, but if the point of socialistic employment is both a. To employ as many people as possible, and b. to reduce the workload on everybody though even distribution of work hours (Theoretical example: instead of having 1 person work at a cash register for 12 hours and leaving 3 people unemployed, the socialist system employs 4 people and them work 3 hours each day, just as an extremely simplistic example.) AND through technological phasing out of unneed jobs (IE replacing said cashiers with self-serve systems.)
Then what kind of pay system or other means of compensation for their work would a socialist system use? Today we use the "Per Hour" wage system. But in the theoretical example above it's pretty easy to see that this would not work very well (If the idea is to spread the work around and reduce the amount of hours that everyone has to work, then wouldn't that have the side effect of reducing just how much a person gets paid?
If history is any example: LOTS of public works, and industrialization.
Just reducing the work week would do wonders.
Well, for a liberal socialist state. Give control to the workers, and unemployment would naturally disappear into practically nothing. Without the state's intervention...
Liberté, égalité
Liberty, Equality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYfXBoN9cU
How to reduce and eliminate unemployment?
It would be a good start to:
(A) get off of polluting and unstable energy sources (oil from hostile countries)
(B) stop creating such hostility in the first place, by minding our own business, thus staying out of others'
(C) invest public funds into much-needed new energy sources (this is how to accomplish A & B)
What does unemployment have to do with energy? A LOT. Every recession in the past forty years
has come in the wake of an "oil shockwave." The recessions of 1974, 1980, 1991, and 2007 have
happened from this Capitalist phenomenon of oil-price shocks. And these, for the most part, were
caused by Capitalist Wall Street speculator trading. Last year, an oil company executive admitted
that up to 40% of the price of crude was on account of price speculation. They call this "petroleum
futures" or something like that.
Remember Hurricane Katrina? I remember that one quite well:
Gasoline prices started going up steeply even while the storm was still two days away in the ocean (WTF?)
IF Katrina had produced massive shortages of gas, prices might have risen at the pump. But there
was no gasoline shortage. NONE AT ALL. And yet we got snookered out of billions of dollars
by the wealthy, high-stakes poker-playing speculator... Such is the price we pay for Capitalism.
Back to unemployment... such is but one example of how capitalism creates unemployment.
Want to be free of unemployment? Dump Capitalism and price speculation along with it.
money is to politics as fertilizer is to garden weeds.
good stuff guys! thanks for this!
we need more revolutions and less "isms"
