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Who cares how many he killed. Every life lost is a drama. I always think about how a dead person's family and friends would feel, terrible and the person him/herself.. terrified.
Now I don't care whether it were 1,000, 650,000 or several millions. Because if 1 death is already such a drama, then when it are so many it is just a horror, no matter how many exactly.
Honestly I don't care if he killed 1 or 1,000,000, if he killed a single innocent person, he killed too many. You'll never convince me that every single death he caused was necessary to defend the revolution.
Yeah,i know.Trotskytes are well known for their compassion and tolerance towards those who don't agree with them...
*cough* *cough* Kronstadt *cough* *cough*
You're right, Stalin was not a murderer. But he was at the head of a system in whose existence a lot of people died, certainly in the hundreds of thousands if not millions or more.
Because of this state of affairs, one has to wonder how:
1) Stalin stayed at the top for so long, and
2) How his record can then be defended, given that he presided over a system that resulted in so, so many innocents being murdered by the state.
I mean, the long and short of it is that Stalin was not himself a murderer or baby-blood-drinker or whatever, but he was the head of state (in practice), of a state that executed a great many people, wrongly.
I don't think you should make jokes at the expense of dead people.
Tell that to the guy who first mentioned this "100k"...
Also does this apply to let's say Mussolini or something?
Also cool moralism bro.
DarkPast's post is really the most useful one here. Academic consensus has roughly settled on 1-1.5 million. Personally I feel that may be something of an underestimation but it's close enough. Obviously the figures are lower if you read a Stalinist apologist and higher if you're taking your cues from some right-wing hack... but then why would you do either?
I go into a bit of detail on the numbers and nature of the victims in this thread
Frankly, most of the other posts in this thread should be deleted. The number and quality of these one-liners really testifies to the collapse in standards on this forum. This is Learning: take your bullshit elsewhere
Quite a large chunk of them. Who do you think was signing the death warrants? The Politburo approved regional limits on executions and senior figures, including Stalin, signed vast numbers of death warrants prior to execution. There were some excesses, of course, but it's safe to say that the vast majority of the executions during the 1930s were officially approved by the Soviet state, often at the highest level
But then it's always worth pointing out that Stalin did not operate alone but rather headed up an entire state apparatus. It's hard to violently repress an entire country by yourself
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
Actually you were.I'm not the one who started talking about "justified" numbers...
So, me suggesting that 100 000, the point of which was to suggest that even lower than the soviet estimates would be unjustifiable, is making jokes against dead people?Tell that to the guy who first mentioned this "100k"...
Also does this apply to let's say Mussolini or something?
Also cool moralism bro.
Have you ever made a post that consisted of more than 1 line?
So, is every noun proper now?
As far as how many people were killed during Stalin's rule, the answer is a lot. Hard numbers depend on your criteria, but the fact of the matter is that there were numbers. And a lot of them.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
Ok, but not just Stalin participated in the purges, and he warned against the extension of them.
"Lenin"'s 1921 purge was bigger than 1936-1937 purge, in percentage. 25% of the party expelled.
Neither Lenin, neither Stalin "killed millions" (or the number you want). They, just like any other Marxist, never argued for extermination. We can say, for example, that one of the consequences of the Civil War was the death of millions; that the consequences of illnesses, droughts and kulak sabotage in Ukraine killed millions; that millions were inevitably killed during WW2 in Soviet soil, etc.
Last edited by Rodrigo; 6th October 2011 at 23:35.
Another view of Stalin, by Ludo Martens (RIP)
http://marxism.halkcephesi.net/Ludo%20Martens/
Trotskyism, Counter-Revolution In Disguise, by Moissaye J. Olgin
http://www.marxists.org/archive/olgi...yism/index.htm
The Red Comrades Documentation Project
http://redcomrades.byethost5.com/red.../articles.html
Ok? What does that have to do with Stalin? It doesn't excuse what Stalin did.
I believe in a better Earth.via
=
Star Wars and video gaming fanatic for life!
No, he and the Politburo repeatedly approved extensions of the violence and regional requests for increased executions. That he later reversed his position and ended the purges (note the demonstration of his power) does not change the fact that he played a crucial role in orchestrating the violence
This is inane. How many people in 'Lenin's purge' were executed or sent to concentration camps? How many ordinary, non-party, citizens were similarly killed or imprisoned? A comparison between the two purges merely reveals the differences that the Soviet state had undergone in the intervening years
No. The role of Stalin in the formulation, coordination and execution of the purges is relatively well established and documented. He signed off, at least, tens of thousands of death warrants and his approval was necessary for the entire operation. Whatever Stalin said in public - and he can hardly be considered soft on the likes of "spies, wreckers, diversionists, and killers" - in private he was fully behind Yezhov's position and the methods of the NKVD
March at the head of the ideas of your century and those ideas will follow and sustain you. March behind them and they will drag you along. March against them and they will overthrow you.
Napoleon III
How many execution lists did Stalin sign?
I am pretty sure even Stalin himself lost count.
Wow you really have no idea what you're talking about. Lenin's the one who ordered Kronstadt be put down. And as it turns out, it was an actual french plot, and the Sailors were polarised ideologically from the communist sailors, who all left the station to fight the whites and died. The ones who were left were the ones who didn't ever really like the bolsheviks. Wow, I can't believe that a Stalinist is bashing a decision Lenin made.Yeah,i know.Trotskytes are well known for their compassion and tolerance towards those who don't agree with them...
*cough* *cough* Kronstadt *cough* *cough*
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
If they didn't then they would have to decide what to do with Stalin since Lenin demanded he be removed from office.
I know, right? My god, I'm having a RED DAVE moment here.
I mean what would any sensible person do in that situation when Wrangel was ready to invade from finland? And this stalinist is making fun of a supposed "Trotskyist," decision to put down a rebellion when that waterway needed to be defended. History bro.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
Did Stalin ever kill anyone personally?
"It is not incumbent upon you to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty to desist from it" - Pirkei Avot
The longer a drought lasts the more likely it is to continue.
I heard he killed his psychiatrist after he deemed Stalin had like a god complex and was a psychotic. However I'm not 100 percent, I just thought it was kinda funny when I heard it.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
Chill out dude.
Wasn't Trotsky the commander of the units that supressed the Kronst. revolt?
