Thread: Occupy Wallstreet

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  1. #1
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    Default Occupy Wallstreet



    http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbus...allstreet.html

    A worldwide shift in revolutionary tactics is underway right now that bodes well for the future. The spirit of this fresh tactic, a fusion of Tahrir with the acampadas of Spain, is captured in this quote:

    "The antiglobalization movement was the first step on the road. Back then our model was to attack the system like a pack of wolves. There was an alpha male, a wolf who led the pack, and those who followed behind. Now the model has evolved. Today we are one big swarm of people."— Raimundo Viejo, Pompeu Fabra University, Barcelona, Spain
    The beauty of this new formula, and what makes this novel tactic exciting, is its pragmatic simplicity: we talk to each other in various physical gatherings and virtual people's assemblies … we zero in on what our one demand will be, a demand that awakens the imagination and, if achieved, would propel us toward the radical democracy of the future … and then we go out and seize a square of singular symbolic significance and put our asses on the line to make it happen.

    The time has come to deploy this emerging stratagem against the greatest corrupter of our democracy: Wall Street, the financial Gomorrah of America.

    On September 17, we want to see 20,000 people flood into lower Manhattan, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months. Once there, we shall incessantly repeat one simple demand in a plurality of voices.

    Tahrir succeeded in large part because the people of Egypt made a straightforward ultimatum – that Mubarak must go – over and over again until they won. Following this model, what is our equally uncomplicated demand?

    The most exciting candidate that we've heard so far is one that gets at the core of why the American political establishment is currently unworthy of being called a democracy: we demand that Barack Obama ordain a Presidential Commission tasked with ending the influence money has over our representatives in Washington. It's time for DEMOCRACY NOT CORPORATOCRACY, we're doomed without it.

    This demand seems to capture the current national mood because cleaning up corruption in Washington is something all Americans, right and left, yearn for and can stand behind. If we hang in there, 20,000-strong, week after week against every police and National Guard effort to expel us from Wall Street, it would be impossible for Obama to ignore us. Our government would be forced to choose publicly between the will of the people and the lucre of the corporations.

    This could be the beginning of a whole new social dynamic in America, a step beyond the Tea Party movement, where, instead of being caught helpless by the current power structure, we the people start getting what we want whether it be the dismantling of half the 1,000 military bases America has around the world to the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act or a three strikes and you're out law for corporate criminals. Beginning from one simple demand – a presidential commission to separate money from politics – we start setting the agenda for a new America.

    Post a comment and help each other zero in on what our one demand will be. And then let's screw up our courage, pack our tents and head to Wall Street with a vengeance September 17.
    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
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  3. #2
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    The likely outcome of this is a lackluster showing that is dispersed rather quickly by the local police, which doesn't really do much given the reformist nature of these moderate demands. Best case scenario it actually manages to gain some momentum and the president co-opts the protest by creating some ineffectual and impotent commission that doesn't even achieve the aims of this subdued objective, so still rather useless.
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    The problem that I see with this, is that the conditions aren't really reforms as much as they are reformist in nature. In the sense that they are abstract and will probably only elicit token responses from the media and the Obama administration. But nonetheless I will be there. I think that we have to change the tone of the demands though, ending Wall St. corruption doesn't really help our class in the long run, its a moral imperative not a class one.
    “How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
    "In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
    -fka Redbrother
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    The likely outcome of this is a lackluster showing that is dispersed rather quickly by the local police, which doesn't really do much given the reformist nature of these moderate demands. Best case scenario it actually manages to gain some momentum and the president co-opts the protest by creating some ineffectual and impotent commission that doesn't even achieve the aims of this subdued objective, so still rather useless.
    I agree with you on every count, this will in no way be successful at having demands be met. This is by no means a revolutionary, nor necessarily leftist movement. What I will say, however, is that if something on this scale happened, anybody occupying Wall Street for however long would be a huge momentum boost. People weren't politically agitating in Tunisia until a man lit himself on fire.

    Revolutions need sparks, at the very least this could increase consciousness among protesters.

    I'm not thinking short-term, demands are met, I'm thinking about the long term level of momentum and the zeitgeist.


    The problem that I see with this, is that the conditions aren't really reforms as much as they are reformist in nature. In the sense that they are abstract and will probably only elicit token responses from the media and the Obama administration. But nonetheless I will be there. I think that we have to change the tone of the demands though, ending Wall St. corruption doesn't really help our class in the long run, its a moral imperative not a class one.
    We agree! We can change the protest by being there and participating, we can't if we're not there at all.
    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
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    This will last and be made to look impressive. The reason for this is because the State will always support inadequate and impotent tactics being used against it.
    "whatever they might make would never be the same as that world of dark streets and bright dreams"

    http://youtu.be/g-PwIDYbDqI
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    This will last and be made to look impressive. The reason for this is because the State will always support inadequate and impotent tactics being used against it.
    Yeah, I don't really care about what the end result is. No actual change will be made it's not enough, whatever, whatever.

    The thing I actually care about is seeing 20,000 people occupying Wall Street. That would be a *huge* thing for the U.S. The occupation of the global headquarters of finance and capital would be an amazing feat, and would help revitalize existing movements.

    But I suppose, we could always just sit back and not take action. That's much more effective and less impotent and inadequate. :/
    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
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    The message should be no more than "Screw Wall Street"
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    I agree with comrade thesadmafioso. Not much will come from this because the U.S is still the most reactionary of places.
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  15. #9

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    This will last and be made to look impressive. The reason for this is because the State will always support inadequate and impotent tactics being used against it.
    We are dooomed, I tell you! Doooooooomed!
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    i'd do it, but i cant get two months off, and ill probably get shot
  17. #11
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    I must admit I am honestly confused by people who say nothing will come from this, I don't think anyone in favor of it actually expects Revolution or sweeping exchange. I think it would INCREDIBLY empowering for the U.S population to take a massive action and would help revitalize radical and revolutionary movements.

    It's important only as a symbolic action, the people to fight against the state and occupy the heart of global finance.

    Why is any of that a bad thing? Would it be better to stop having protests/rallies/etc.?
    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
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  19. #12
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    I must admit I am honestly confused by people who say nothing will come from this, I don't think anyone in favor of it actually expects Revolution or sweeping exchange. I think it would INCREDIBLY empowering for the U.S population to take a massive action and would help revitalize radical and revolutionary movements.

    It's important only as a symbolic action, the people to fight against the state and occupy the heart of global finance.

    Why is any of that a bad thing? Would it be better to stop having protests/rallies/etc.?
    I agree, saying things like "it wont make a difference anyway" is exactly the type of mindset that needs to be abolished.

    I believe there are 2 problems facing the person who would otherwise be mobilized toward positive change:

    1. The truth of our current circumstance is overwhelming
    2. The average person can't do shit about it (at first glance)

    These progressive articles and websites floating around the internet are fantastic, but they fail. They fail hard and they fail often. Despite how well-crafted they are and how legit their message, they fail to penetrate into the popular conscience.

    Now, you can ***** about the right wing propaganda and the general stupidity of the Masses, but *****ing just makes you a defeatist and ultimately alienates all those who could be persuaded to help.

    First, we give people a helping of the truth that they can handle--we don't make a video or write an article about the totality of the shit that's destroying this world. That's been done. It gets old. When a moderate person hears about corporate abuses delivered in sum, he thinks he's hearing conspiracy theory. There's just too much distasteful truth to swallow in one sitting, and too many progressive organizations fixed on delivering it all in one spoonful.

    Better to go after one aspect, specific enough to single out, yet general enough to have a large amount of greivances against it, and go for the throat. Wall Street is a perfect example.

    Second, we give people something they can actually do. How many times have you been fired up by a documentary about some bad shit, only too cool off at the end when you're told "How You Can Help"? Stop buying stuff, write a letter to your congressman and donate money. The only roles you're offered to play in the effort are passive and futile. People have a serious frustration inside them right now, and that frustration needs to be channeled into action--action beyond the passive and the futile.

    People here saying things along the lines of "it wont do any good, the media/police/state are gonna shut it down or twist it" might as well be saying "why bother." Strong opinions, weak resolve.

    I, for one will be there, 09/17/2011.
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  21. #13
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    If you guys are brave enough to do it, and the U.S. police starts shooting, we can use that as propaganda

    No, jk, I'm not a big asshole
    [FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
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    لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
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    Oh i forgot reason number 3: Abject Fear
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    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
  25. #16

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    Quick question. Is there a single person among the above who
    a) Knows the terrain of Wall Street;
    b) has participated in a march on Wall Street;
    c) has actually had to deal with New York City cops and
    d)has enough experience of any of the above to contribute something constructive?

    No? Then shut the fuck up.
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    Quick question. Is there a single person among the above who
    a) Knows the terrain of Wall Street;
    b) has participated in a march on Wall Street;
    c) has actually had to deal with New York City cops and
    d)has enough experience of any of the above to contribute something constructive?

    No? Then shut the fuck up.
    Because obviously anyone not a native New Yorker doesn't have anything of value to contribute. We can ignore any experience other people have of participating in urban protests in a bunch of different cities.

    Good work on empowering and educating people though about those different issues.
    [FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]
    -Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
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    The problem that I see with this, is that the conditions aren't really reforms as much as they are reformist in nature.
    What do you expect from Adbusters? The "corruption" focus and demand for some commission on this or that are hella weak and they strangely include the Tea Party as some kind of legitimate protest movement.

    But the idea that Adbusters would actually try and encourage action - and if there is a decent turnout - it is a step forward for small "l" liberals or at least for the broad left. And if people turn out, I think the majority of people there would have only really paid attention to the part of the demand I put in bold: "we demand that Barack Obama ordain a Presidential Commission tasked with ending the influence money has over our representatives in Washington. It's time for DEMOCRACY NOT CORPORATOCRACY".

    If I lived in NYC I'd check it out and talk to people - and if it's big then it really shows that people are radicalizing and seeing things like Wisconsin and Cairo as invitations to take action themselves.

    Edit: and how many protests do y'all go to where what's being called for from the front of the stage is the main focus anyhow? So many labor rallies with so many pitches for the Democrats. I mean I really doubt that people will turn out to ask for a commission and all that - I think if people do come out it will be because they want to be a pain in the ass for people who they see as wreaking their lives - yeah a symbolic thing, but Wall St's a pretty loaded symbol.
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    Quick question. Is there a single person among the above who
    a) Knows the terrain of Wall Street;
    b) has participated in a march on Wall Street;
    c) has actually had to deal with New York City cops and
    d)has enough experience of any of the above to contribute something constructive?

    No? Then shut the fuck up.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
  30. #20
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    Why is any of that a bad thing? Would it be better to stop having protests/rallies/etc.?

    I won't say it's bad but it doesn't leave me feeling good. It would make me feel a little better if there were other tactics used in conjunction with this AND if the people NOT involved in these other tactics understood why these other tactics were valuable. I think it depends on how the word camp can turn to occupy. Otherwise we're left with a LOT of people who participated thinking that 'being them' is enough. It encourages impotent tactics in exchange for a fake panic/deliver from the top.
    "whatever they might make would never be the same as that world of dark streets and bright dreams"

    http://youtu.be/g-PwIDYbDqI

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