Nazis....

[commieboy]

Nazis.....Nazis....Nazis

they will bring total enemies together just to end them....and i've realized this today....EVERYONE HATES THEM!

Think back in the 1930's and 1940's the USA, UK and USSR were enemies...until Nazis came into the picture, then Winston, Joeseph, and Franklin were sitting side by side all to kill the nazis...Communists and Capitalists coming together to end one thing NAZIS!

I was watching a movie today called "The Rocketeer" from 1991...it takes place in 1939 and in it a pilot finds a secrect rocket pack the US is working on, and a hollywood star is actually a Nazi spy...and at the point where it's "The girl for the Rocket" and the pilot looks at the spy's hired Mob muscle and says, "How does it feel to be working for a Nazi?" and then the mobster's confused and then says to the spy, "I'm a 100% American and i dont work for no two bit Nazi!" and then the FBI comes in and a firefight between the mob alongside the FBI fighting the SS that comes out of the bushes....

Now even though this was a movie....i've realized that Nazism is the world's biggest evil, and it will bring total enemies to allies just to fight it...

If from history we can learn anything, its this...nazis never win

[Desert Fox]

Well in the second world war, stalin didn't work with capitalists out of free will. He had a agreement with Hitler but the fool broke it when operation barbarossa started. Than Stalin had no choice but to fight alongside the allied forces so he didn't really hate them but he had no choice. If I have to say thing that is typical about nazis is there ignorance. They don't know that their ideas are old and unrealistic. They have a ideology that should have died a dead long ago but still they want to wish to dream of their dream. And that is rather sad since that most neo-nazis aren't even aryan, so they are not even the übermensch they claim to be following their ideology. But the nazi-ideology is probally the most hated ideology but not by everyone hated. I personally think their ideas are madness and unrealistic but who am I to say that everyone agrees with me on that subject.

[Funky Monk]

The question is, how many people would hate Nazis if the second World War didnt happen? I mean we are all taught 'Nazis are bad' at a young age and i wonder how we would view the Nazis if htey hadnt caused a huge War and genocide.

It was obvious the American government didnt have too many misgivings about Nazis, at least not enough to stop them employing them.....

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Funky Monk@Oct 26 2003, 10:57 AM
The question is, how many people would hate Nazis if the second World War didnt happen? I mean we are all taught 'Nazis are bad' at a young age and i wonder how we would view the Nazis if htey hadnt caused a huge War and genocide.

Well even without those horrible events their ideology still remains unsane and unrealistic. Sure they would be less known, but their ideology would will still be seen as wrong and seen with as much hate as now. I don't see how that would change if they wouldn't have done such horrible things. Those events only helped to spread what nazis were and when they saw who they are, the people hated them. But in no way would the opinion change of the people if the nazis wouldn't have done such cruelities, sure they could see them as less extreme but that is all

[Funky Monk]

I agree that their ideology is messed up but i believe that there are many who would not think so negatively of it if they hadnt seen the effects that this ideology could have with the holocaust.

The Nazis were a political movement in Germany and they achieved great succes. I think that many Nazis would have dismissed the idea if they had seen at the start where it would lead. So presumably, if no-one saw where it would lead there would be many more who might be taken in.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Funky Monk@Oct 26 2003, 05:33 PM
I agree that their ideology is messed up but i believe that there are many who would not think so negatively of it if they hadnt seen the effects that this ideology could have with the holocaust.

The Nazis were a political movement in Germany and they achieved great succes. I think that many Nazis would have dismissed the idea if they had seen at the start where it would lead. So presumably, if no-one saw where it would lead there would be many more who might be taken in.

I see your point, people have first to exp. and see the cruelty before they believe it. I agree too, if people saw what would happen if they follow the nazis they would have reject them. But sadly people have to learn from their mistakes and that mistake was really a far to high price to pay. However the ideology itself will be always hated in all times, even if the holocaust would have not excisted people would have resented the nazi ideology. And if it was not the holocaust than it would have been a other sad event that would have see it's birth due to the nazi ideology. That ideology is probally the one that people most hate in any time, any place

[sledovatel]

hitler would have come for the united states, but not until after he had conquered the european nations. he knew that he was too weak to take on the united states along with the european nations, but if he would have succeeded in his attempt at europe, he would have been powerful enough to take on the united states alone. luckily he created two war fronts and froze his troops in russia. he probably would have taken russia as well, if he hadn't opened up the eastern front so early.

as for nazism's racist views of jews, i think they were more of an after thought. hitler needed something that would really rally the people around him and be the driving force of his coming to power. at the time, europe as a whole was very anti-semetic. hitler, being opportunistic, saw this as a way to vent the rage of the germans over their loss of ww1 and unite them in a common cause. he began to blame the jews and others for the economic decline in germany. this played right into the already formulated anti-semitic thought already held by many germans. that is how fascism and racism melded to become a part of nazism.
-s

[KickMcCann]

I think its pretty bad that Germans or Germany are still seen in a nazi filter. 99.99% of Germans hate the nazis and hae nothing to do with them what so ever. It is true that in the former Soviet East-Germany that fascism has a small following, but this is just a reaction ot the poverty and censorship of East Germany. Does a white American born in the 70's 80's or 90's have anything to do with slavery, or the oppression of minorities? National identification has the sole problem of identifying people with a name or title they have no control of. We can't control where we are born.

In regards to the Mr. Hitler's post, don't say you follow Germany because Germany hates you and wants nothing to do with your backward tribalism. Don't say you follow America either because I was born there and absolutely despise war and fascism. You are not following any nation, you are following an obsolete system and your own mental delusions.

I feel bad though because thats too easy.

The nazis didn't lose ww2 because they were allied with Japan, they lost because the nation the nazis parasited was not capable of matching the resources of the US and USSR. We had alot more oil, alot more manpower, alot more factories, etc..... Maybe they could have fought alot longer like in WW1 had they not been racist and executed millions of men because of race, religion, sexual and political identity. Emptying your country's population of able-bodied men is no way to conduct a successful military campaign. But then again, the war wasn't inspired by nationalism, but pure hate wrapped in nationalism.

True, if they had been allied with a resource-rich nation like the US or USSR they could have won. I realize that in America there were nazi sympathizers (Joe Kennedy, the Bush Family) and there were officials in the USSR concerned more with greed and power than ideals of international human right rights, but I have enough faith in human kind to believe that despite their imperfections, the majority of people would refuse to stand with a group of destructive monsters like the nazis.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by KickMcCann@Oct 28 2003, 04:41 AM
The nazis didn't lose ww2 because they were allied with Japan, they lost because the nation the nazis parasited was not capable of matching the resources of the US and USSR. We had alot more oil, alot more manpower, alot more factories, etc..... Maybe they could have fought alot longer like in WW1 had they not been racist and executed millions of men because of race, religion, sexual and political identity. Emptying your country's population of able-bodied men is no way to conduct a successful military campaign. But then again, the war wasn't inspired by nationalism, but pure hate wrapped in nationalism.

True, if they had been allied with a resource-rich nation like the US or USSR they could have won. I realize that in America there were nazi sympathizers (Joe Kennedy, the Bush Family) and there were officials in the USSR concerned more with greed and power than ideals of international human right rights, but I have enough faith in human kind to believe that despite their imperfections, the majority of people would refuse to stand with a group of destructive monsters like the nazis.

The nazis lost the war after operation barborassa, it is a simple as that. If Hitler would remaind ally with Stalin than he would have been able to win the war. Since Russia had enormous amounts of soldiers and machinary to spare. And Hitler had connections with Japan too and you all know they have one of the best air force avaible. Don't forget that both Russia and China had communistic views and China that already hated the USA could have been a major player too and they have the biggest air force of the world. Combine that excellent air force with enormous amounts of infantry and much machinary and you have a blitzkrieg that could destroy any enemy. There is only one disadvantage and that is the sea fleet since the brits and americans were superior on the water. But even with their superiorty on the water the awesome air force of (japan, china, russia and germany) would have taken over England quit fast. But that is not all Germany had a decent force in Africa too and if the Brits would lose their home country Germany would seize africa fast too. And if they would have africa + europe + russia + asia under their control usa would surely follow. There is only one thing that would be hard after the war and that is who gets wich country to control.

NOTE: This was just pure thinking in no way do I support the fact that the nazis could have won the war and neither do I support allyships between those various countries

[Totalitarian]

Originally posted by sledovatel@Oct 28 2003, 03:13 AM

as for nazism's racist views of jews, i think they were more of an after thought. hitler needed something that would really rally the people around him and be the driving force of his coming to power.

Hitler was able to get so many germans fired up against the jews, because there were millions of christians being murdered by the government of bolshevik russia at the time. Hitler pointed out the disproportionate jewish involvement in this affair, and was able to associate anti-christian, anti-german activity with judaism.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Totalitarian+Oct 28 2003, 10:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Totalitarian @ Oct 28 2003, 10:05 AM)

sledovatel

@Oct 28 2003, 03:13 AM

as for nazism&#39;s racist views of jews, i think they were more of an after thought. hitler needed something that would really rally the people around him and be the driving force of his coming to power.

Hitler was able to get so many germans fired up against the jews, because there were millions of christians being murdered by the government of bolshevik russia at the time. Hitler pointed out the disproportionate jewish involvement in this affair, and was able to associate anti-christian, anti-german activity with judaism. [/b]

And not to forget, that in hard times people always search someone to take the blame. Hitler gave the jews the blame and the people didn&#39;t think twice of thinking if he was saying the truth since life was quit hard and they searched someone responsible for their misery. If Germany wasn&#39;t been put in a recession after WWI than WWII would have never excisted

[Exploited Class]

I say Hitler&#39;s rise to power was 50% perfect timing, 25% himself and 25% due to the people he surrounded himself with. I don&#39;t care what skills you posses if the time is not right for whatever you are trying to do, your plans are not going to take off. The same with the American Revolution, The attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, the Russian Revolution..ect..ect.

Kind of like there would be no Mozart if there was no piano...

I blame a lot of Hitler&#39;s rise to power on the mishandling of harsh punishments to Germany and more importantly the german people following WWI, by foreign powers.

And if it outside influence isn&#39;t enough then you make some history for that time yourself like the burning of the Riechstaff (or whatever that building was called).

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Exploited Class@Oct 29 2003, 11:46 AM
I say Hitler&#39;s rise to power was 50% perfect timing, 25% himself and 25% due to the people he surrounded himself with. I don&#39;t care what skills you posses if the time is not right for whatever you are trying to do, your plans are not going to take off. The same with the American Revolution, The attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, the Russian Revolution..ect..ect.

Kind of like there would be no Mozart if there was no piano...

I blame a lot of Hitler&#39;s rise to power on the mishandling of harsh punishments to Germany and more importantly the german people following WWI, by foreign powers.

And if it outside influence isn&#39;t enough then you make some history for that time yourself like the burning of the Riechstaff (or whatever that building was called).

You have been reading too much J.M Keynes, and A.J.P Taylor. It has been shown that the amount per year supposed to be spent on reparations by Germany (which they claimed to be crippling them) was 7 times less per year than was spent on re-arming by Hitler and Stresemann etc.

Not to mention hat the Treaty of Versilles was revised many times. Just look at the Locarno agreements. Or the Young Plan, or even the Dawes Plan/. Reparations were stripped to third&#33; I would put the rise of Hitler down to the Manufactured hyperinflation created by Germany to aviod paying reparations. The Depression also had a very major part to play.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Exploited Class@Oct 29 2003, 10:46 AM
I say Hitler&#39;s rise to power was 50% perfect timing, 25% himself and 25% due to the people he surrounded himself with. I don&#39;t care what skills you posses if the time is not right for whatever you are trying to do, your plans are not going to take off. The same with the American Revolution, The attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, the Russian Revolution..ect..ect.

Kind of like there would be no Mozart if there was no piano...

I blame a lot of Hitler&#39;s rise to power on the mishandling of harsh punishments to Germany and more importantly the german people following WWI, by foreign powers.

And if it outside influence isn&#39;t enough then you make some history for that time yourself like the burning of the Riechstaff (or whatever that building was called).

Well I agree the timing was excellent and thanx to the timing he could rise to power, but offcourse had great talents as politician and knew the right persons to contact. But that is just repeating what you said. And true he destroyed the Reichstag but that was more to take out the communistic opposition by giving them the blame. But me too give the main blame on the rise of hitler on the sanctions of the treaty of versailles that was the main scource of unrest in Germany ...