This is neither the end nor a defeat. Assad is next.
In time the working class will grow disillusioned with the lack of economic reform. For now, the promise of democracy will delay development of a proper revolution.
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Thus I would argue, marks the end and defeat of the Arab Spring. Or at least a significant blow to it.
This is neither the end nor a defeat. Assad is next.
In time the working class will grow disillusioned with the lack of economic reform. For now, the promise of democracy will delay development of a proper revolution.
I have a feeling there will be a short honeymoon. Let's not forget that there was a large section of the rebels who never wanted assistance from NATO in the first place.
EDIT: Post 4,000! Woo-hoo!
I don't think so...the good colonel was not a reformist, nor were his supporters (well, perhaps he was a reformist back in da day, but certainly not in today's era. In fact he was moving in the exact opposite direction). So I don't see how his defeat is a defeat for the reformist movement, which is what the "Arab Spring" is. It's certainly not a revolutionary movement, although the social forces involved have potential.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
There were? They sure haven't exhibited much evidence of existence lately.
Let us not sugarcoat this. This is a huge victory for imperialism, and a huge defeat for the Arab peoples. You will now have a government utterly subordinate to the whims of the imperialists--and fairly popular to boot initially.
This will strengthen the position of imperialism all over the Middle East. It will especially have a strong effect in Syria, where the popular insurgency will also become more and more subordinate to the imperialists after the Libyan model. It will discourage popular mobilization vs. the US-supported military dictators in Egypt.
Arab rulers will now be licking US boots even more fervently.
-M.H.-
I really hope the new Libya is not another US puppet state
"Man's inhumanity to man" is not the last word. The truth lies deeper. It is economic slavery, the savage struggle for a crumb, that has converted mankind into wolves and sheep.
-Alexander Berkman
I honestly don't know how I feel about this. To me this seems like a victory for Western imperialism and the NATO club regardless of whether or not certain sections of the rebel factions didn't want foreign intervention. As to what will happen after this, I am curious to see.
And if he start to scream, BAWM BAWM, have a nice dream, a true mothafucka going out for the loot.
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."-Col. Gaddafi.
"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters or take any from you."-Edward Teach.
Well as an anarchist and a communist I have to respect and support the peoples right to self determination and their desire to overthrow a dictator. Call Gaddafi whatever you want but there is no denying he is a repressive dictator.
This does not mean I support the NTC, I support the Libyan people only
"Man's inhumanity to man" is not the last word. The truth lies deeper. It is economic slavery, the savage struggle for a crumb, that has converted mankind into wolves and sheep.
-Alexander Berkman
The libyan rebels themselves had the same motivations as the egyptian protesters or syrian ones, libya is just more valuable than egypt which is why there was more of imperialist interference in that country. Ghadaffi was an imperialist puppet himself, he was just a 3rd world country's dictator. An incapible one at that, who tried unsuccessfully to give himself a big brother look. Why the fuck do stalinists think he's a representative of the proletariat though? It's like they think they NEED to pick between two assholes. What it comes down to in my opinion is opposing any interference by NATO but letting the libyan people decide what to do. And syrians hate the U.S. and NATO more than libyans do, so it'll be tougher there. i would have thought that Stalinists would back assad as well, since he's "anti imperialist," whatever the fuck that means. Cheuvanism of the working class is what i'm seeing from Stalinists during the Arab spring though. i think this is the begining of something better in the M.E. though.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
WSWS article on the subject: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/au...liby-a20.shtml
* h0m0revolutionary: "neo-liberalism can deliver healthy children, it can educate them, it can feed them, it can clothe them and leave them fully contented."
* rooster: "Supporting [anti-imperialism] is reactionary. How is any nation supposed to stand up [to] the might of the US anyway?"
* nizan: "Fuck your education is empowerment bullshit, education is alienation, nothing more. You indulge in a dying prestige for a role in a bureaucratic spectacle deserving of nothing beyond contempt."
* Alexios: "To the Board Administration: Ismail [...] needs to be eliminated from this forum."
Moved to Ongoing Struggles: The Arab World Protests.
This islamist state isn't gonna last long, there Has to be too many libyans who actually want democracy. Still, this is terrible.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
lol.
Hope Obama still has Bush's "Mission Accomplished" banner. If not I guess they may as well make a new one, in French, for Mr. Sarkozy. If not that, this might do:
![]()
Where's the massive "progressive" "people's" (dare we say working-class?) spontaneous mass resistance to the rebels? I suppose they cower in fear of the imperialists, whilest previously they bravely rallied to the Brother Guide of the Revolution.
Still, I am sure Libya's descent into failed statism and total burglary by more formidable bourgeoisies and their states, will continue unabated, catalyzed in fact, by this event. No cause for celebration, rather, a bitter lesson for what real historical prospects for political and social change are outside of the working class for itself.
I can't wait to see all the freedoms NATO bestows on the people of Libya and all their oil fields.
But now we must pick up every piece
Of the life we used to love
Just to keep ourselves
At least enough to carry on
What are you talking about?
If you're suggesting the "rebels" have been allowed to take Libya without any popular resistance - have you heard anything about this country in northern Africa called "Libya", where a ragtag bunch of ex-Gaddafi officials, ex-pat businesspeople and Islamic fundamentalists backed with money, guns, airstrikes, diplomatic, training and strategic support by the most powerful military alliance in human history, ever, hasn't been able to displace an allegedly hated monarch, after 6 months of fighting, in a small country with a heavily armed population?
Give me a fucking break.
You know exactly what I am saying. I am saying that the Gaddhafi regime has no popular, much less "national liberation" or whatever class-collaborationist ideological recipe the Western armchair left has invented to give itself purpose since its abandonment of the workers' movement in its opportunistic collusion with non-Anglo-Euro-American petty bourgeois and insurgent (quite honestly Third Positionist) movements throughout the world. If it was a political machine erected in support of something other than the Libyan bourgeoisie's exploitation of labor power and natural resources, then one would have expected that social basis to emerge. Rather, one reactionary club of bourgeois forces revolted and overthrew the regime where it was weak, and then outlasted the rump regime in the West.
You're trying to portray it like it was the Last Stand of the Spartans or some shit, which is absurd. Let's be honest: NATO did not commit itself fully to this campaign and there was a mixed support for interventionism within the Western elite. Nevertheless, one cannot use NATO's support as proof positive that the regime has progressive political character due to the fact that Gaddhafi held-on until outlasted for six months.
Interesting when Churchill said "We shall never surrender" it was hailed as one of the best speeches in history and when Colonel Gaddafi said basically the same thing late last night he was called a lunatic by media.
Screw NTC, there is nothing democratic about them.
NATO created another colony and some of you are cheering for it - this makes me actually physically sick![]()
"Ideas do not need weapons, if they can convince the great masses." - Fidel Castro
[FONT=Verdana]some amateur leftist songs written by me: Brand new one: TOUR DE MARXISM , Stalingrad battle song , Greet us in Havana, Bolshevik Girl
cover stuff: [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Partisan (Leonard Cohen), Working class Hero (John Lennon)[/FONT]
And here comes the delusional accusations that anyone is "cheering" anything. A necessary device, when the progress of history presents itself to your tendency as a brand-spanking-new excuse of the day to try to call out others for insufficient fictitious support for foreign bourgeois forces bleeding the working-class white with their wars.
You sir are a delusional man... and also suffer from the subconscious NATO fetish. Sad.
"Ideas do not need weapons, if they can convince the great masses." - Fidel Castro
[FONT=Verdana]some amateur leftist songs written by me: Brand new one: TOUR DE MARXISM , Stalingrad battle song , Greet us in Havana, Bolshevik Girl
cover stuff: [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Partisan (Leonard Cohen), Working class Hero (John Lennon)[/FONT]