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Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler ?
Is Holocaust Denial the same as defending Adolf Hitler National Socialism/Nazism/Racism and or Nazi Germany and the Nazis what Im asking is do people who deny the Holocaust want to defend Adolf Hitler and make him look like a good person in my opinion the answer is yes because most Holocaust Deniers are Neo Nazis and Racists and Anti Semites and hate all Jews does anyone agree with me I also want to say one more thing I understand why Neo Nazis and Racists and or White Supremacists and Fascists deny the Jewish Holocaust but why do some Muslims deny the Holocaust I don't get it because Muslims did not do that evil thing Nazi Germany did ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
[FONT=Arial black]Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered and died[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial black]at the hands of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black]Given the evidence ... why do people deny the Holocaust? [/FONT]
[FONT=arial]The cynical truth comes to us by way of an obscure extremist group, which boasts: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial black]"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make [/FONT]
[FONT=arial black]National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."[/FONT]
Not in Denial Anymore
Book Review by Andrew Stone, July 2002
Review of 'Telling Lies About Hitler', Richard J Evans, Verso �14 and 'The Holocaust on Trial', DD Guttenplan, Granta �9.99
http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/ar...clenumber=8083
Please reply to this thread anyone thank you.
Please reply to this thread anyone thank you.
I was reading that a growing number of Palestinians do not believe the immense proportions of the Holocaust, and believe it was simply overstated in order to garner more support for Israel. It's understandable, in a way, considering the pressure Palestinians are under on a daily basis.
"If those in charge of our society — politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television — can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves."
-Howard Zinn
I agree
I agree I don't think Muslims and Arabs and Palestinians deny the Holocaust because they like Adolf Hitler Nazis and Racism I think they deny the Holocaust because the Zionists and the State of Israel and the Israelis use the Holocaust for Sympathy.
It may be understandable intellectually but it should be strongly condemned. If anything it could be argued that what they are facing is essentially no different than what the Jews and many old Israelis went through during the holocaust. I think this would make a more powerful point then denying the holocaust or large portions of it. I have spoken to many and I simply do not understand why they would deny the holocaust. No genocide should be tolerated or white-washed from history.
And if he start to scream, BAWM BAWM, have a nice dream, a true mothafucka going out for the loot.
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."-Col. Gaddafi.
"Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters or take any from you."-Edward Teach.
No. Holocaust Denial is not the same thing as promoting/defending Nazis. They are often interrelated in the sense that Nazis might see the motive in denying the holocaust, but other Nazis might be proud of Hitler's actions. So they are not one and the same.
Also, you might consider using periods (.) and commas (,) in the future. It makes reading your paragraph much, much, easier.
- August
If we have no business with the construction of the future or with organizing it for all time, there can still be no doubt about the task confronting us at present: the ruthless criticism of the existing order, ruthless in that it will shrink neither from its own discoveries, nor from conflict with the powers that be.
- Karl Marx
Holocaust denial is sometimes confused for other things. For example, i once pointed out to a Jew that 6 million non-jews were also killed in the genocide, he then proceeded to call me a holocaust denier. Others believe that a holocaust did happen but that the number of victims has been exaggerated, which they perceive themselves to be doing on intellectual grounds. However, real holocaust deniers have a lot to prove if they want to hold that position.
Pretty much anyone who has any sort of hatred towards Jews for whatever reason tends to deny the Holocaust or at least downplay the numbers, simply as a personal attack against the Jewish race as a whole.
This applies to:
- Palestinians
- Some Arabs in general
- People with a hatred for Israel
- White Supremacists/Nationalists
- Nazis
- Fascists
- NWO Conspiracy Theorists (lol)
The Muslims who deny the Holocaust usually do so on anti-Israel grounds. There is clear anti-Semetism here - they feel that Jews get special treatment because of the Holocaust and are thus just reacting against this.
There is also a feeling that the only reason Israel exists is because of sympathy over the Holocaust and this too causes anger.
Other people who deny the Holocaust will do so out of a mixture of Anti-Semetism, apologism for the Nazis, or apologism for the actions of Germans in the war (some German nationalists have attempted to do this not out of love for the Nazis but out of a wish to get rid of German guilt from the war, that still has influence today).
I don't think it is exactly the same as apologism for the Nazis - as this can be done through different approaches, but it is a sort Nazi apologism.
I think Palestinians can be forgiven for any anti-semitism, particularly because zionism is very similar to lebensraum- it's a homeland for jewish people, or a homeland for aryans.
Da Fok?
Indeed. The only holocaust deniars out there I know are anti-semites and anti-Zionists and the crazies that say the evil Jews are the secret rulers of the world and engineer every atrocity bla bla. It's all very silly. Hitler caused the death of 26 million Soviets, of my people, I have no reason to doubt the holocaust. 12 million is a low estime, the highest is 17 million. Almost 6 million Jews, about 3 million Soviet PoWs, 2 million Poles, 8 million Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussians civilians. Also the Roma, who were nearly exterminated, they had it even worse than the Jews.
We know how many atrocities Hitler has committed, why deny the part about Jews? If you start saying the Jews weren't systematically murdered under the Nazis, what comes next? Then it could be claimed Hitler didn't commit any of the other crimes against humanity and eventually you'll end up with Hitler being a pretty nice guy and national socialism being a legitimate idealogy.
And it's not just the holocaust. What about the 30 million people the Japenese slaughtered in the East? Or earlier, the 7 million Ukrainians Stalin starved to death to prevent Ukrainian Nationalism from becoming strong.
I don't think this is a valid statement.
Perhaps we shouldn't "forgive" them for making such statements, as anti semitism is by not means acceptable on any grounds.
What we could do, however, is accept that Palestine does not have a very effecent (spelled wrong, sorry) means of educating it's masses, soi antisemitism is something that is expected. However, the Hamas, that of which has leaders who are educated, should receive no sympathy, considering they're the ones spreading antisemitic propaganda from birth.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
The murders of Soviet civilians are not usually included in Holocaust death tolls. But around 17 million Soviet civilians died during the war.
BTW, modern post-Glasnost (and thus much more accurate) estimates of Holodomor deaths stands at 3-3.5 million. Just to give some perspective as this is the worst crime associated with the Soviet Union (and seemed to have a lot more to do with incompetence, and the fact the central government cared much more for its wider economic targets than a malicious will to slaughter).
I don't really think the Jews "had it even worse" then the Jews.. Whether you were Gay, Communist, Jewish, or a Roma etc, you're being marched off to the camps either way...
He's basically using mentioning Robert Conquest's idea of the ''Terror Famine'' in reference to the Holodomor. Using one of the higher estimates of the death toll, he also infers that the famine in the Ukraine was a deliberate policy of the Soviet government to break resistance to Stalin's regime.
Its a popular thesis amongst anti-communists.
I'm interested why the great leap forward, cultural revolution ,holdomor , armenian genocide etc. -denial isnt ilegal ? Is it becouse they don't include Jews ? hmm
none of it is illigal, its all stupid, but not illigal.
Why should a viciously anti-working class sentiment be condoned? Why should we condone reactionary political positions which undermine the possibility of working class unity?
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“The possibility of securing for every member of society, by means of socialized production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially, and becoming day by day more full, but an existence guaranteeing to all the free development and exercise of their physical and mental faculties – this possibility is now for the first time here, but it is here.” Friedrich Engels
"The proletariat is its struggle; and its struggles have to this day not led it beyond class society, but deeper into it." Friends of the Classless Society
"Your life is survived by your deeds" - Steve von Till
