Well considering they kill apostates, allow 4 wives, abolish beer-drinking, pro-terrorism, pro-Imperialism and dietary restrictions; I say no.
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Is Islamic Sharia compatible with Leftist ideologies?
Interested to get people's thoughts whether Sharia is compatible with the views of Leftist ideologies given all the controversy being generated in the UK by Anjem Choudary's upcoming declaration of "Sharia Controlled Zones" in London.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sharia
Well considering they kill apostates, allow 4 wives, abolish beer-drinking, pro-terrorism, pro-Imperialism and dietary restrictions; I say no.
Fair enough.
You forgot under it they execute homosexuals, and even moderate Muslims I've spoken too strongly agree with that.
Also Sharia law recognises private property.
Originally Posted by Sharia Law
Last edited by Nox; 14th August 2011 at 01:16.
lolno
- Wikipedia, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sharia
I would guess: definitely not.
One of the tenets of leftism is a firm stance on secularism, so no.
Fuck. No.
[FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
― Felix Dzerzhinsky [/FONT]
لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
Its a shame to see comrades parroting bourgeois islamophobia.
There is no such thing as 'sharia law'. There are 6 different competing codes of Sharīʿah. Nor were any a state legal system, they were more akin to canon or Talmudic law. Only a minority of Sharīʿah deals with criminal law. The majority covers civil law and private behaviour, like the correct way to pray. Fearing 'sharia law' is like fearing 'christian law' - on it's imposition each sect would attack every other, insisting that it's interpretation be imposed.
Pious Muslims would endow a Waqf, businesses or land held in trust, to support a school to train jurists. The graduates of these schools had no more authority than their own scholarship. Not until the 1950s, when the post-colonial regimes seized the Waqf, were Islamic jurists state employees. The current dominance of conservatism in Islam is a product the House of Saud's devil's bargin. Saudi oil wealth funds the most conservative of jurists, in exchange for no one criticising the royal family's very un-Islamic behaviour.
The feudal authorities of medieval Islam often drew upon the writings of Sharīʿah jurists, just a royalist authorities in Europe often drew upon Christian jurists. Even Iran, which had the most monolithic Islamic culture found it impossible to introduce 'sharia law' after the revolution. Islamic jurists stretch from Abdelwahab Meddeb, who likes to quote the Marquis de Sade in his writings to the ultra-conservative Salafi sponsored by the Saudi monarchy.
Vive y salud!
You’re obviously very new, Comrade.
I, for one, have dealt with this point many times (See the list of my posts). Many other comrades have also dealt with your silly charge of ‘parroting bourgeois islamophobia.’ Read, Comrade, READ!
The short answer is NO — NO set of ‘laws’ based on the inane babbling of someone’s invisible friend is compatible with Communist principles, IMO, for many good reasons, one of which is of especial significance to me. NO religion that has any substantial following in the C21 regards women (or gays) as the absolute social, political, economic and juridical equals of men (or straights).
If you want to get down to specifics in relation to islam, I would think that there is a fundamental incompatibility between the basic principle of unconditional gender equality that I imagine most would regard as integral to a communist worldview and Men have authority over women because allah has made the one superior to the other (Qu'ran, Sura 4, Verse 23).
No, Comrade, as another poster once said, “Religion is part of the muck of ages that is suppose[d] to be done away with.”
Last edited by Salabra; 16th August 2011 at 11:59.
Our male friends are more susceptible to faintheartedness than we women are. A supposedly weak woman knows better than any man how to say, “It must be done.” She may feel ripped open to her very womb, but she remains unmoved. Without hate, without anger, without pity for herself or others, whether her heart bleeds or not, she can say, “it must be done.” Such were the women of the Commune. - Louise Michel, Communarde Parisienne
So thinking that Islamic law may not be compatible with communism, a very secular ideology, is bourgeois islamophobia? Do you mind if I call you a religious zealot, while we're at hyperboles?
Quick question: do these 'Leftist ideologies' we speak of prohibit polygamy for some reason? Or why is the fact that Islam permits polygyny of any relevance to this discussion? (Hint: you'd have to go a bit further...)
did he say he agreed with sharia.??
no.
as for reading your posts in my opinion some are borderline "islamophobic",bigotted and others at the least zionist..comrade..
Last edited by freepalestine; 17th August 2011 at 00:31.
Fuck no. We are fighters for humanity.
Why do I see so many leftist wanting to try to combine feudal fundamental Islamic ideals with leftism? Is it because it seems like they are fighting against
"U.S. imperialism"?
Yes, I do have a sailors mouth. Did it offend you? Then toughen up you pussy penis!
Do to Iseuls claims I am a Sexist, I added penis!
I dont like being a wage slave =
"Using negative rep as a weapon against other people just reveals your cowardly and reactionary nature."
--Iseul
"And once again, the old dictum is confirmed that the worst product of fascism was 'anti-fascism'."
-- Zanthorus
Yeah man...apostasy is some bulllll shit. Should kill those who commit it...
to answer the op'squestion.?
NO..
but that doesnt excuse anti-muslim bigotry
To imagine that there is a single 'Islamic law' that might be imposed on an unwilling population, is to sucome to religious bigotry. Just as Christians vary from revolutionary to reactionary, from revolutionary Marxist Jesuits to the fasicist Opus Dei, so to are there wildly divergent strands of Islam. There are strong tendencies towards misogyny, homophobia, religious bigotry, et cetera... within a number of tendencies within Islam, and they should be attacked as such. Some communists have been homophobic, should all communism stand condemned? It is a logical error, moral folly, and a strategic mistake to attack all Muslims on the basis of the practices of the few.
Some bits of Sharīʿah are compatible with communism, some bits are not, and some bit are complimentary. For example, how is refraining from eating pork incompatible with communism? A lot of the objections that have been raised so far in this thread are held mainly by the lunatics so beloved by the bourgeoisie media.
"Kill apostates"
The Qur'an itself does not prescribe any earthly punishment for apostasy; Islamic scholarship differs on its punishment, ranging from execution - on an interpretation of certain hadiths — to no punishment at all as long as they "do not work against the Muslim society or nation." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4850080.stm) Those hadith that do proscribe the death penalty come from the period when Muslims were a small persecuted minority, and some 'Muslims' would change sides in the middle of a battle.
"4 wives"
This was a restriction to prevent 6thC Arabic raiders from taking scores of women prisoners as sex slaves. Not a great improvement but better than nothing. As the same Sura requires all 4 wives to be treated equally, the vast majority of modern Muslims interpret this as a back handed banning of polygamy.
"abolish beer-drinking"
This one is contravsersial. Some Muslims think all alcohol is banned, some think it is spirits, some public drunkeness, and other being drunk while at prayers. Many sufis were famous for their alcohol fuelled orgies. Beer is certainly wide spread in Indonesia.
"pro-terrorism"
Just plain bullshit. A very small minority of Muslims think terrorism is a valid anti-imperialist tactic. The vast majority of Muslims, who tend to be the victims of said terrorism, strongly object to terrorism.
"pro-Imperialism"
This claim is probably the closest to being legitimate. The harshly reactionary interpretation of Islam that is backed by the Saudis is increasingly coming to dominate Islam. The Salafi focus on personal purity rather than public good, does tend to give the collaborationist governments a free pass.
"dietary restrictions"
What the hell do dietary restrictions have to do with communism?
"execute homosexuals"
Some do. Most don't. There is a strong tradition of publicly recognised homosexuality in a lot of Muslim countries, especially Afghanistan and Lebanon.
"Sharia law recognises private property"
I've no idea about that. Any sources?
Vive y salud!
You know, probably not, but people won't just give up one world view for another in a 1:1 transition. The more likely scenario is that as Muslim societies become more secular, the more extreme parts of the religion will fall out of practice.
It happened to Christianity after all.
But now we must pick up every piece
Of the life we used to love
Just to keep ourselves
At least enough to carry on
This is a bit like saying there is no such thing as capital punishment as the state has different methods of murdering people.
Try the Quran, which is full of statements about how to conduct business, and inheritance laws. As you yourself said:
The whole idea of Zakat (alms), which is one of the five pillars of Islam is deeply antithetical to communist ideas.Originally Posted by JacobVardy
This isn't antithetical to communism, but is just untrue. The vast overwhelming majority of Muslims know that alcohol is forbidden by Islam.Originally Posted by JacobVardy
Alcohol is certainly widespread in this country too. Most people I know are Muslims and most of them drink. They know it is forbidden by the Quran though.
Devrim
As a Muslim, I think it was remarkably progressive in its original form for its original time, like many thinks like Hammurabi's code. But you have to be ridiculous to want it now. Muslim muntzers would be great, but I stick to communism.
And no, normal Muslims don't want to kill gay people, and if anyone does, they're a fucking idiot, whether Muslim, Jewish, or christian.
"The intellectual forces of the workers and peasants are growing and getting stronger in their fight to overthrow the bourgeoisie and their accomplices, the educated classes, the lackeys of capital, who consider themselves the brains of the nation. In fact they are not its brains but its shit."
—Lenin
"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy."
—Albert Einstein
