UK looting

[AnonymousOne]

Assuming it's only black people out rioting because obviously those vile n*****s are just so damn violent by nature. It's basically the same assumptions a right-wing asshole would make, only difference being he's praising "them" for it.

Uh, Goti123 said nothing of the sort. All he said was having a similar organization like the BPP would helpful for marginalized black youth.

Calm down.

[Vanguard1917]

Does the recent UK disturbance represent an upturn in class consciousness...?

Only time will tell what kind of effect these riots will have on people's consiousness. I think that we can safely say, however, that, at least currently, they are being met with almost universal repulsion in Britain.

[Threetune]

Only time will tell what kind of effect these riots will have on people's consiousness. I think that we can safely say, however, that, at least currently, they are being met with almost universal repulsion in Britain.

[FONT=Verdana]Why do you say that? My experience is nothing like that. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT]

[Crux]

[FONT=Verdana]I can remember previous riots and watched as the ‘Militant Tendency’ (of the Labour Party) now calling themselves the ‘Socialist Party’ set-up loud speakers in a block of flats and told the youth on the streets below not to attack the police because they were “workers in uniform”. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana]Any movement the sectarian British left can’t parachute into or chuck a net over, they condemn one way or another while they think up ways of channelling class struggle into the safe calm waters of peaceful protest and electoral opportunism. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana]This latest uprising is as much a spontaneous attack on the ‘left’ as it is on the system that offers only a future of unemployment, low pay, police harassment, and criminal economic abuse at the hands of landlords, loan sharks, ‘entertain’ gurus, drug barons, and is then insulted by press and TV and the corrupt parliamentary racket, who really are a “law unto themselves”. And that’s all before the opportunism if the religious and community ‘leaders’ come knocking for a free hand out claiming to be able to alleviate the confusion and misery, and inevitable violence inherited from capitalism’s brutal “dog-eat-dog”, “cut-through” competition culture.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana]The economic crisis of the degenerate capitalist system, the ‘War on Terror’ and the New of the World ‘scandal’ are not just some complementary backdrops or adjuncts for theses latest riots, they are the conditions which produce the ‘grab it and run’ consciousness at present, not only, or even mostly of the rebellious crowds, but of every bit of personal opportunism deemed necessary for survival as the walls of ‘Babylon’ come crashing down. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana]Since forever, the ‘lefts’ have been telling workers to, protest peacefully, vote for the parliamentary racket, because the ‘left’ regardless of all its posturing about revolutionism, has in practice always dumbed down and trashed the real struggle for revolutionary theory about the capitalist crisis in favour of trendy activism that might one day get them elected. Them days are gone, but it won’t stop the ‘lefts’ trying to revive them. Again, if you don’t believe it, just watch out for next weekend’s ‘left’ press response to the riots. Understanding the counter-revolutionary anti-communist nature of the ‘left’ is revolutionary theory and will be decisive for the working class in the battles to come. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Develop this revolutionary theory![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Build Leninism! [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Oh ye, and read Lenin first hand. [/FONT]

Yeah, we know you're a bitter old man that hates the left and entertain the absurd notion your opinions have anything in common with leninism, thanks for reminding us in case anyone forgot from the last time you made a post.

[Vanguard1917]

[FONT=Verdana]Why do you say that? My experience is nothing like that. [/FONT]

Well, the only anger against the state i have witnessed from the wider public is against the police for their lack of policing, and against the government for not putting enough police on the streets. Such sentiments definitely do not signify a rise in working-class consciousness.

[Dr Mindbender]

Only time will tell what kind of effect these riots will have on people's consiousness. I think that we can safely say, however, that, at least currently, they are being met with almost universal repulsion in Britain.

Its spreading though inst it...?

I take the ruling class media with an extra large portion of salt. I'd say that the majority of working class people are probably somewhere between indifferent and sympathetic to the 'rioters'.

[Vanguard1917]

I'd say that the majority of working class people are probably somewhere between indifferent and sympathetic to the 'rioters'.

I'd think that is extremely unlikely, especially now that the riots have descended towards mere thieving and seemingly pointless destructivity.

[robbo203]

Its spreading though inst it...?

I take the ruling class media with an extra large portion of salt. I'd say that the majority of working class people are probably somewhere between indifferent and sympathetic to the 'rioters'.

Not too sure about that. At any rate from the comments on yahoo news and elsewhere I would say the overwhelming majority are hostile to the rioters, some virulently so to the point of being viciously racist or reactionary.

I think it is important not to approach this phenomenon in too black or white terms (no pun intended here). Much has been said about the social deprivation and the prevailing sense of hopelessness about the future among young people which has helped to fuel these riots. I have no qualms about the looting of large retail outlets but I am concerned when violence is misdirected against fellow workers, their homes and so on.

This is counterproductive and reactionary and underscores the fact that the riots are not driven by any clear political objective. Unfortunately the response to the riots could have the effect of making the entire social envrionment much less conducive to radical ideas should reaction set in.

This is why we have to be very careful about how we approach this whole matter and not get carried away with the moment

[bcbm]

the lesson from los angeles is that the modern middle class won't tolerate mob rule

[Nox]

I think the #1 thing that sums up this event is that people are looting FOOD AND CLOTHES and other basic necesseties.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

the lesson from los angeles is that the modern middle class won't tolerate mob rule

Not to worry, it seems that the middle class is shrinking, and if current trends continue, it won't exist for much longer.

[Die Rote Fahne]

There is no "middle class" dammit...

The "shrinking" is just the wealth gap between the bourgeoisie and proletariat widening.

To others: the rioting is not pointless. This is an act of agitation against, perhaps unwittingly, the ruling class, and the status quo of peaceful rule of that class. It will stir up fear in the rulers, and ideas in the workers. That action can be taken, and should. As well, people should be highly skeptical of the bourgeois media on the riots, as well as everything else.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Not to worry, it seems that the middle class is shrinking, and if current trends continue, it won't exist for much longer.

beat me to it.


on a side not. could this thread be the dumping ground for all the debate on the uprising? like, clean out the original thread and dump it in here? keep updates in the other thread?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

There is no "middle class" dammit...

The "shrinking" is just the wealth gap between the bourgeoisie and proletariat widening.

You know what I mean, dammit. Just because a term is meaningless in Marxist terms does not mean it doesn't have a use in political parlance.

[CommunityBeliever]

the lesson from los angeles is that the modern middle class won't tolerate mob rule

Why can't the media just say the ruling class won't tolerate mob rule? Why do they have to pretend to speak for some other group (the "middle class") ?

[Die Rote Fahne]

You know what I mean, dammit. Just because a term is meaningless in Marxist terms does not mean it doesn't have a use in political parlance.

jokes my dude.

[Jimmie Higgins]

the lesson from los angeles is that the modern middle class won't tolerate mob rule

Well no surprise when it comes to history as told by the corporate media, but I think there are some problems with the basic argument in this piece.

First, they claim that the Watts riots were supported by the middle class when in fact they were not. The fact that some liberals moved towards (at least lip serviced) sympathy and called for reforms for the poor had more to do with the fact that there had been a 10 year civil rights movement before 1965. Additionally, most liberals didn't sympathize with the riots: the growing militancy of the black movement and the switch from targeting antiquated jim-crow racism to the racism suffered by working class people in the north split liberal support even for figures like MLK Jr. But the riots did have an effect and it wasn't just because of the Watts riots, it was a sustained period of urban insurrection with riots in every major city every summer for years! So the combination of clarity of demands and political consciousness through the black power movement along side urban insurrections of mostly black (though also other groups) youth made the necessity for action and reform obvious to the ruling class.

The LA uprising also wasn't a direct line to the racial attacks and backlashes by the politicians of the 1990s. It caused some ideological confusion and defensiveness after years of an aggressive "war on drugs" and brutal militarized "gang" squads that beat up people in poor black and Latino working class areas. The economy and the riots are two of the main things that Bush was attacked for - he was seen as cold and indifferent to the suffering of the poor. The riots brought a real political urgency to the "black consciousness" movement that had been building since the anti-Apartheid movement and made the issues of black poverty a prominent part of mainstream politics for a few years.

But this riot was isolated and there were no independent let alone militant movements to keep the pressure on so a lot of this consciousness and momentum got dragged (for lack of alternatives and lack of independent political leadership) into mainstream liberalism where it suffocated and died like the pro-abortion movement of the late 80s and the gay rights movement of that era.

So I guess my reason for this argument is just to say that riots do have a significant ideological impact and while there's no guarantees, it does matter what activists do once these riots have concluded and how they try and build something out of it - obviously radicals have a valuable role in that activism too.

[∞]

They're attacking small businesses. Thats not right.

[ZeroNowhere]

They're attacking small businesses. Thats not right.

One must stand before one can walk.

[Pirate Utopian]

Why is that not right? Why should we care about small business?