Fake Leftists or "Red Fascists"

[DinodudeEpic]

I meant ideology-wise. Not the countries themselves. Juche and National Bolshevism is an ideologically descendent of Stalinism. Maybe I should put a capitalist strain as an alternative to red fascists.

National Bolshevism pretty much is the freak combination of Nazism and Stalinism.

[electro_fan]

lol this is one of the reasons why going on revleft is like going into a parallel universe lol, very few people these days think that north korea is anything to do with the left, not even stalinists, and they are even starting to privatise a few limited things.

[electro_fan]

I meant ideology-wise. Not the countries themselves. Juche and National Bolshevism is an ideologically descendent of Stalinism. Maybe I should put a capitalist strain as an alternative to red fascists.

National Bolshevism pretty much is the freak combination of Nazism and Stalinism.

however being fair to Stalinists I don't think that is true, I think it is more fascism in a stalinist garb, they have borrowed a lot of the imagery and rhetoric from stalinists but really it's got little in common with it because at least stalinism resulted in a deformed workers state where workers did have some (limited) control, just like "national anarchists" have nothing to do with anarchism

[Kiev Communard]

I meant ideology-wise. Not the countries themselves. Juche and National Bolshevism is an ideologically descendent of Stalinism. Maybe I should put a capitalist strain as an alternative to red fascists.

National Bolshevism pretty much is the freak combination of Nazism and Stalinism.

I have read Strasserite texts, and it seems that they have conceived their "national socialism" as a weird combination of petty-bourgeois individual households in agriculture and small trade and Titoist-style corporate-property-disguised-as-workers' councils'-property in large scale industry. The Strasserites, surprisingly enough, denounce Soviet-style societies as state-capitalist, yet simultaneously claim that the "best people" who would run the corporatist enterprises under their system wouldn't constitute a ruling class, being merely "a functional aristocracy" (as if this were not bad enough!). In fact, I would say that the Gaddafite "Jamahiriya" would seem a typical example of the fake Strasserite-style "socialism" in action.

[electro_fan]

Interesting post Kiev Communard. Correct me if I'm wrong but dont the strasserites include the AWL etc, lol?

[DinodudeEpic]

I was talking about National Bolshevism.

Strasserism is a different story.....You can actually see the similarities between Stalinism, Strasserism, National Bolshevism, Maoism, Italian Fascism, and Juche. The whole thing is to combine two opposites.

Revolution and reaction
Populism and elitism

Here is the spectrum of what I consider Syncretic ideologies

Stalinism/Maoism:Farthest to the left, mostly is a really authoritarian Leninism with some nationalism. No discrimination against other nations though, just national pride and authoritarianism.

Third-world nationalism: Center of Syncretic Ideologies, Gaddafi and national-liberation movements/little Bonapartes.

Strasserism/Italian Fascism: Strasserism and Italian Fascism are of the right in the syncretic ideologies scale. It pretty much combines the mass worker action(Italian Fascists based their ideology of Sorel's 'syndicalism' with nationalistic or racial action.) with corporate/nationalistic/racial action.

Pol Potism:Prmitivism with communist rhetoric and in commune. Overly racist and nationalistic. Even imperialistic, as to want to recreate the Khmer Empire.

National Bolshevism/Juche: Odd that the most far rightists of syncretic politics use the red flag/hammer and sickle to support their positions. Pretty much is Nazism/Reactionary Monarchism with communist rhetoric and a few kinks here and there.

And, this is pretty much syncretic politics.

[electro_fan]

interesting take on things although no idea how accurate it is i need to do some more reading i think !

[Kiev Communard]

Interesting post, although I would like to add some more of my observations:

Strasserism/Italian Fascism: Strasserism and Italian Fascism are of the right in the syncretic ideologies scale. It pretty much combines the mass worker action(Italian Fascists based their ideology of Sorel's 'syndicalism' with nationalistic or racial action.) with corporate/nationalistic/racial action.

Firstly, I am still unsure about Sorelist ideology, as it seems that the Polish ZZZ, a militant Inter-War syndicalist union with more than 150,000 members at its height, was clearly anti-fascist/anti-racialist in its ideological composition, yet pursue Sorelist, rather than anarchist, version of syndicalism.

Pol Potism:Prmitivism with communist rhetoric and in commune. Overly racist and nationalistic. Even imperialistic, as to want to recreate the Khmer Empire.

Perhaps milk may prove me wrong, but I have always thought that there are significant similarities between Pol Potism and National "Anarchism", as they both claim to be anti-capitalist, supposedly pursue communal modes of life and oppose "ethnic mixing".

National Bolshevism/Juche: Odd that the most far rightists of syncretic politics use the red flag/hammer and sickle to support their positions. Pretty much is Nazism/Reactionary Monarchism with communist rhetoric and a few kinks here and there.

In the context of National Bolshevism, if one speaks about overtly traditionalist Duginite faction, then your comparison with Juche is accurate. Modern "mainstream" (i.e. pro-Limonov) Russian Nazbols are fairly close to National "Anarchists" in their ideology.

[DarkPast]

In the context of National Bolshevism, if one speaks about overtly traditionalist Duginite faction, then your comparison with Juche is accurate. Modern "mainstream" (i.e. pro-Limonov) Russian Nazbols are fairly close to National "Anarchists" in their ideology.

So what exactly are National "Anarchists" supposed to be? Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. Nevermind the paragraph I quoted on the last page, that mentions "Limonov's new strategy of seeking political alliances with pro-Western and pro-market liberal-democratic forces".

The more I read about them, the more they seem like some brainwashed cult following a charismatic leader (whose political stances seem contradictory and purely opportunistic).

[tradeunionsupporter]

This is a good topic thanks.

[Red Future]

@Milk: I'm not convinced. Like I said, stated intent is one thing, while actual policies are another - and no government ever wanted to ruin its own country. I simply cannot understand how anyone would consider nationalist supremacy to be Marxist, or how one can be a sincere revolutionaty and work with the CIA. But whatever.




Yep, and good find, can't believe they even use the term themselves...

The word "Bolshevik" is spelled wrong in this video ...

[Viet Minh]

?

No one calls Kim Jong Il or the eternal president Kim Il Sung fuehrer.. properly Kim Jong Il's title is Generalissimo, but that confers only military rank and has none of the implications of the title Fuehrer that you suggest.

Neither does this poster

[Kiev Communard]

So what exactly are National "Anarchists" supposed to be? Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. Nevermind the paragraph I quoted on the last page, that mentions "Limonov's new strategy of seeking political alliances with pro-Western and pro-market liberal-democratic forces".

This article summarises the ideological nature of this Third Positionist movement rather comprehensively, so I think it will be enough to clarify the things with "National Anarchism". As for Limonov and his followers, they are basically a spent force that is no longer able to attract the significant numbers of the new followers, so I would not worry about them too much.

[ComradeMan]

Perhaps milk may prove me wrong, but I have always thought that there are significant similarities between Pol Potism and National "Anarchism", as they both claim to be anti-capitalist, supposedly pursue communal modes of life and oppose "ethnic mixing".

There is something discernably volkisch about the way the Khmer Rouge implemented their policies and their overall strategy.