Why is Communism better the Capitalism?

[RGacky3]

The Soviet Union was real communism -- the communist manifesto is theoretical or "textbook" communism. What happened there, and everywhere else, is the natural outcome of communist revolution.

yeah, and the democratic republic of Congo is real democracy.

If you want to argue against Soviet Union people then go right ahead, but most people here are not that type of socialist, call it whatever you want, we are fighting for a workers economic democracy, not the Soviet Union, if your gonna argue against us you have to actually argue against us and not some bullshit strawman.

[Oswy]

After having met a very loud and annoying Communist. Who was absolutely sure of his beliefs yet provided little to no reason as to why they Communism was better then Capitalism, I ask you the members of Revleft to explain.

Why is Communism better then Capitalism?

Because, as Mr Spock said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

[kapitalyst]

I hate to break it to you, but its generally considered good form to not drop quotes in a pursuit of sounding clever and in pursuit of misleading your audience about the views and position of who you are citing.

What are you talking about?

Is that why it bore no resemblance to the policies and desires of the revolutionaries of 1917, and Stalin had to butcher nearly the entire original Bolshevik party in order to realize his program?

Precisely my point. Marx's actual ideas have a beauty of their own. But we cannot deny what monsters have been created by it.

This is tantamount to if Alexander Hamilton had had every member of the Continental Congress, Constitutional Convention, and Sons of Liberty hung or shot and then people claimed Hamilton's autocracy was the responsibility of every thinker and every one of their thoughts who had been shot or hung. Totally ridiculous.

I never said that. I don't blame you for the USSR. I think you're one of the honest people who wants to see the Marx's true vision employed. Most communists do. And I have nothing against you. But for every 10,000 of you, there are a couple nut jobs who will kill in the name of Marx. And they'll even kill you to get their way.

[Revolution starts with U]

So then what do socialists advise workers in countries, or areas, who managed to pull off a revolution? That they are SOL for socialism because their fellow proletariat in some other country were not successful in their efforts? Seems kind of lousy and rather "evolutionary."

Perhaps the workers in the former can use themselves as a rallying point to the oppressed elsewhere in the latter? The former can provide material, ideological, and perhaps on occasion, physical support to the latter?
Sitting around pouting otherwise doesn't seem particularly progressive, or even decent.

You make a good point. I mean, does anyone really think the New Deal would have even been brought up without the existence of the Soviet Union?

Jackson was OPPOSED by the "ruling class" (whatever that was). He was a great hero to the "common man" (being one himself). Jackson backed the majority.

Jackson was a creature of the pseudo-populist side of the ruling class. He was a great hero to the common white man. Jackson backed the majority of white people.
I find it terribly disgusting that capitalists routinely see class only in terms of the ruling class, and dismiss the underclasses as basically not people.
You do know there were blacks and indians living in early america right? they are people.

You are wrong. There was a wealth requirement, which was set very low. In later decades it was reduced for whites (and raised for blacks).

oh, a wealth requirement.. that's better

[Rafiq]

Then sir, you have no idea what Communism is.

I would politely ask you from refraining from such comments, as such are counter productive.

In all honesty, I don't think you know what communism is, either.

After having met a very loud and annoying Communist. Who was absolutely sure of his beliefs yet provided little to no reason as to why they Communism was better then Capitalism, I ask you the members of Revleft to explain.

Why is Communism better then Capitalism?

It is natural to ask such questions. I answer by saying we are not opportunists for 'communism'.

We (Marxists) do not operate on a basis of trying to convince you why Communism is better than any other system. We do it on a basis that we have already understood capitalism's inherit flaw, i.e. Capitalism is doomed to failure, so it's important we find a solution to it before we are doomed with it.

We recognize the inherit class struggle within Capitalism: a war between the proletarians and the bourgeoisie.

The proletarians, in their hands, carry the seeds of the future. They are the only class that is capable of organizing humanity into a more efficient system than Capitalism.

The Bourgeoisie are the conserving Humans, they strive off of exploiting Workers using the Capitalist system. In their hands, they would destroy progress in the midst of profit, they have no interest in being progressive, because in doing so would destroy their existence.

The proletariat is (indirectly) the most progressive class to date.

I don't know if 'communism' is better than capitalism. I am no fortune teller and I don't think anyone could tell you what it would look like. Someone who does is talking out of their ass.

But I can tell you that, with all the things possible, if you think that a most efficient mode of production is capitalism and will always be capitalism, you are naive. Humans have been around for 2 Million years. Our goal is to destroy the class enemy and serve our interests as a class. Society will adjust and organize itself into a more efficient mode of production afterwords. It is our job to make sure that the obstical to Human progress: The bourgeoisie, are removed of their power.

EDIT *Sorry, I didn't know this was an old thread and that I already replyed to it. I feel dumb.

[Rafiq]

So you want a World Government with Direct Democracy.

Wouldn't Direct Democracy be impossible to accomplish in a World Government?

Probably. I don't buy into the belief that all of Earth could be administrated with Direct Democracy.

I'm sure society will formulate a political structure that administrates Earth in the most rational way.

EDIT *Sorry, I didn't know this was an old thread and that I already replyed to it. I feel dumb.

[Rafiq]

Well said. To the OP, I'd recommend looking to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea ("North Korea") for an example of the superiority of communism. Universal no cost healthcare, food distribution, worker's power and a people's army.

http://www.korea-is-one.org/

Or read up on things authored by Bruce Cummings.

I have to admit, I laughed pretty hard at that one.

Oh the opportunism in your posts is so pathetic.

I am actually debating with myself as to whether you are actually just a troll or an idiot.


EDIT *Sorry, I didn't know this was an old thread and that I already replyed to it. I feel dumb.

[Jose Gracchus]

I never said that. I don't blame you for the USSR. I think you're one of the honest people who wants to see the Marx's true vision employed. Most communists do. And I have nothing against you. But for every 10,000 of you, there are a couple nut jobs who will kill in the name of Marx. And they'll even kill you to get their way.

And no 'limited government' liberals ever used their social and state power to conquer Native American lands, expel their inhabitants, rob territory and wealth by force--how did you put it? Kill to get their way?

Its just easier to look at atrocities when you're part of the descendents of Lebensraum politics gone successfully.

[Agent Equality]

I have to admit, I laughed pretty hard at that one.

Oh the opportunism in your posts is so pathetic.

I am actually debating with myself as to whether you are actually just a troll or an idiot.


EDIT *Sorry, I didn't know this was an old thread and that I already replyed to it. I feel dumb.

Well probably both. He is gone btw :P

[kapitalyst]

And no 'limited government' liberals ever used their social and state power to conquer Native American lands, expel their inhabitants, rob territory and wealth by force--how did you put it? Kill to get their way?

Its just easier to look at atrocities when you're part of the descendents of Lebensraum politics gone successfully.

By "Lebensraum" politics, I'm guessing you mean Manifest Destiny... no? But what are "limited government liberals"?

Militarism and imperialism are not classifiable as economic ideologies, no matter how hard you might try to rationalize such illogical attempts. Communists and capitalists both can subscribe to such thinking (and have).

My point is not that you guys are nutjobs... to the contrary, I think 99% of you are respectable people I'd invite into my home for dinner. But how do you respond to the historical precedence for Marxist ideals being used as a vehicle to lure ignorant people into cultic organizations that commit horrible atrocities?

As I've said before (somewhere in these forums), Christianity has been used for such wicked purposes too. I'm a Christian, but I cannot deny that this is true. So never in my wildest dreams would I try to establish a "global Christian society". I think that if people want to convert and live by Christian ideals, then they'll do it... and it only means anything if they do it willingly. So why do you want to drag people, kicking and screaming, into your utopian vision of a "brave new world"? And don't see any danger in it?

[RGacky3]

But how do you respond to the historical precedence for Marxist ideals being used as a vehicle to lure ignorant people into cultic organizations that commit horrible atrocities?

I'm a Christian as well and I would use the same argument, the difference is Christianity is a personal commitment, socialism is an economy philosophy, its a liberation philosophy, we arn't FORCING people to accept our vision, we arn't dragging people (as christians historically did), what we want to do is get rid of the barriers that stop people form having control over their own lives, and to have a say in the social institutions that affect their lives.

That argument is like a monarch saying "why do you want to FORCE people into your vision of democracy."

[kapitalyst]

That argument is like a monarch saying "why do you want to FORCE people into your vision of democracy."

Ehhh... nah... You see, people actually wanted to end monarchy, first of all. And ending it didn't require people to comply.

If you don't force socialism/communism, no one will comply with it. And what do you do with them? What is to be done with the "dissidents"? My world history book says shoot them... so there we go.

[CommunityBeliever]

You see, people actually wanted to end monarchy

Ahh, yes, it wasn't people that have been working to end capitalism for the past century, it was actually reptilian shapeshifters. By the way, you are full of shit.

[Revolution starts with U]

All the people did? Then what was that whole American revolution about? Wait... wasn't there a big movement to make Washington King of America...?

[RGacky3]

Ehhh... nah... You see, people actually wanted to end monarchy, first of all. And ending it didn't require people to comply.

And a lot of people want to end capitalism, and it will only end when enough people wnat to end it, which is comming, and is gonna come faster considering Capitalism is making things worse and worse and its collapsing.

[HellHound01]

I totally forgot about this thread and site. I'm very sorry.

I also thank the majority of you for your thoughtful and well thought out commits (well most of you, North Korea? Seriously?)

However I'm not convinced that Communism (or Socialism or whatever) is a better system then Capitalism.