How to fight Conservative Christian ideals with socialism

[Social-Murphy]

Any ideas of how i can argue better with a Christian Conservative with Socialist politics?

[RebelDog]

Tell him melting ice caps don't care what god promised Noah.

[CHE with an AK]

Since he is Christian,

tell him to open his Bible and read James 5:1-6 as the warning ...

and then read Acts 4:32-35 for the solution.


If that doesn't work, punch him in the face, take away his Bible, light it on fire, and then ask him to ask Jesus to forgive you.

[thesadmafioso]

Long term, you could always wait for the process of dialectical materialism to run its course and eliminate the need for religion and thus the existence of his position.

Until then, any proper materialist analysis of the role of religion which outlines its use to placate the revolutionary consciousness of the masses should do.

[noble brown]

U can argue but will rarely win. Theyre strong in faith but got really messed up logic. Generally speaking of course. U don't win arguments with religeous fanatics, u just make em look ridiculous an that's not very nice, is it? So I don't bother as a general rule but a few of them are truly open they just haven't been exposed to the real shit or been actually encouraged to think critically. I usually like to ask em questions about their faith and religon as they see it to gain understanding. Fukk trying to win an argument. Engage them learn what really motivates em then u won't need to beat them u can help em.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

There is ample evidence in the Bible that Jesus himself was a socialist.

[Rafiq]

How about don't argue with crazy people. You're going to get no where.

[pax et aequalitas]

There is ample evidence in the Bible that Jesus himself was a socialist.

What he said. I have a teacher who said "Jesus was the first communist". And it should be obvious why: From what I know from the bible Jesus gave up all his possessions and encouraged others to do so as well.

It is in fact one of the few sensible things in that entire book if you ask me.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

tell him to prove god, when he say "prove god doesn't exist" say "i'd rather have no god, than to have an evil cruel god that kills millions of people before their time on a daily basis" then when he says "he does all that for a reason" say "hmm, he killed my grandfather, who was a B-17 pilot in WW2 before i was born, for a reason?" when he says "well yea" you get the idea

[Obs]

bleeeeeeeeeeeggggghhhhh i'm a fucking moron

Stop.

[pluckedflowers]

I don't think we can really say Jesus was a communist. Perhaps a reformist socialist. He accepted the legitimacy of the existing imperialist regime ("render unto Ceasar"). And, given his teachings of voluntary poverty, if anything, he was a lifestylist. I'm half joking.

As for how to argue with conservative Christians, it really depends on the particular ideology. I mean, there's a massive difference between, say, an evangelical Christian and a conservative Catholic who actually pays attention to Church teachings. In the end, you need to familiarize yourself with what they themselves believe and find ways to show either the incompatibility of those beliefs with support for capitalism or the incoherence of the beliefs themselves.

Personally, I don't think focusing on socialism from the start is the best way to go. Focus on capitalism, what it is and how it operates. Forget religion, you're not going to make any headway so long as they remain committed to capitalist mythology.

[Ingraham Effingham]

Isn't reaching out to those less fortunate one of the major tenets of x-ianity?

Socialist ideas are much more conducive to this idea than capitialist.

[pluckedflowers]

Isn't reaching out to those less fortunate one of the major tenets of x-ianity?

Sure, but that's not Socialism. It's charity. Socialism is fundamentally altering the structure of society to end the very causes of poverty.

Christianity certainly encourages charity. Socialism, on the other hand, is another question.

[thesadmafioso]

Isn't reaching out to those less fortunate one of the major tenets of x-ianity?

Socialist ideas are much more conducive to this idea than capitialist.

Socialism aims to reach our the those less fortunate by arming them with the theory to overthrow those who have made them less fortunate.

[Ingraham Effingham]

I really meant the disabled, elderly etc.

[pluckedflowers]

I really meant the disabled, elderly etc.

In those cases, too, Christianity encourages charity. But I've heard Christians argue against social services on the basis of the fact that charity is supposed to be voluntary, not mandated by the state via taxes. So what's really at stake are more basic questions of private property and such, questions that most religious texts really don't address one way or another.

[DarkPast]

Christian charity has completely different roots than socialism.

The reason Jesus and the early Christians supported charity is because Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, who believed the world would soon end. The gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke basically have him saying:
-abandon your Earthly ambitions
-abandon your family and give your loyalty to God alone
-get rid of all your material possessions, sell them and use the money to do good deeds
-follow the Mosaic law
-abstain from all sins
-turn the other cheek
-don't judge others; judgment day will come soon anyway
etc. etc.

The gospel of John is markedly different, and essentially demands only that you obey and worship God. It was also written somewhat later than the other three. My belief is that this was because the church leaders, embarrased by the fact that the Apocalypse didn't happen, took out most of the old apocalyptic ethics and just put in stuff to get a big and loyal congregation. The clergy got rich and charity became something to keep the masses in their place.

So what I'm trying to say here is that Christian charity has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. The early Christians believed the world would end soon, so they thought hanging onto your material wealth was just plain stupid. It would be gone soon anyway, and only good deeds could bring you salvation.

[Ingraham Effingham]

Christian charity has completely different roots than socialism.

The reason Jesus and the early Christians supported charity is because Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, who believed the world would soon end. The gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke basically have him saying:
-abandon your Earthly ambitions
-abandon your family and give your loyalty to God alone
-get rid of all your material possessions, sell them and use the money to do good deeds
-follow the Mosaic law
-abstain from all sins
-turn the other cheek
-don't judge others; judgment day will come soon anyway
etc. etc.

The gospel of John is markedly different, and essentially demands only that you obey and worship God. It was also written somewhat later than the other three. My belief is that this was because the church leaders, embarrased by the fact that the Apocalypse didn't happen, took out most of the old apocalyptic ethics and just put in stuff to get a big and loyal congregation. The clergy got rich and charity became something to keep the masses in their place.

So what I'm trying to say here is that Christian charity has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. The early Christians believed the world would end soon, so they thought hanging onto your material wealth was just plain stupid. It would be gone soon anyway, and only good deeds could bring you salvation.

That's interesting. Maybe Jesus's apocalyptic predections mirror that of of today's american doom-sayers, just as Rome's development of fascism mirrors America's burgeoning fascist state.

[Optiow]

Say that if Jesus was a conservative arsehole, then he wouldn't have shared his food equally and healed the sick, because they don't believe in welfare or free health care. If Jesus was a conservative, he would have charged them for it.

[Obs]

Alternately, you could leave people's personal religious beliefs out of it and have a normal, rational political discussion.