Antifa and Free Speech

[thesadmafioso]

Fascists do not deserve to be allowed the privileged of spreading their vile filth, I don't need to reconcile that reality with anything. I do not think these freedoms should be extended to those who wish to force such a nefarious and deprived ideology upon the world, as the threat of what they purport far outweighs the value of any categorical devotion to bourgeois liberty.

[Mettalian]

I, personally, have no tolerance for fascists, racists, homophobes, mysoginists et al. Call it intolerance if you wish, but I don't extend any pleasantries towards unwarrented hatred, and it sickens me when people are allowed to preach such hatred because freedom of speech is held as this holy grail that we must all worship. But I am glad that there are others in the left that feel differently than me and many others here, as it promotes debate which will, hopefully, lead to the best solution.

[tachosomoza]

I quit debating about this a long assed time ago. I don't tolerate that bullshit. Freedom of speech has limits. Nobody should urge others to violent action against an individual simply because of the way they choose to live. If you seek to deny rights to others, then you don't deserve those rights yourself. Maybe it's my position and experiences as an African-American male that have made me this way...

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Some of these people here are unbelievable, avowedly stating that everyone who doesn't agree with 'our' politics has no right to express their disagreement. Utterly disgusting.

Well just imagine this for a second. You have successfully overthrown the capitalists and have set up a workers government where you live. Would you allow the people who are going to use all of their energy to destroy it into the government itself? Will you allow FOX news to sit there and brainwash people's minds with apocalyptic visions of how bad communism is or are you going to appropriate their property(thereby getting rid of their freedom speech)? Most bourgoeis rights are heavily intertwined with what we seek to destroy which is private property.

[Tim Cornelis]

Yeah, Trotsky was all over those Bourgeois papers with his Red Guard divisions, seizing their presses and banning the distribution of counter-revolutionary literature. Interesting thing for what appears to be a Trotskyist to say. This is a conversation I've had over 9000 times. Fascists don't have the right to speech, press, congregation, or life. Evolve and come to the understanding that there's a monopoly on speech in the dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie and of the Proletariat and that the state apparatus is used to silence the opposite class from making any meaningful statement; this is clear, undeniable and unavoidable. It's only the worst liberalism to argue for the rights to speech, press, congregation, etc. for a demographic of rabid nationalists who want nothing more than to kill and imprison you and I for our affiliations. Never forget '33 when the Gestapo came for the KPD, and never forget the struggles in Yugoslavia and Greece, and the heroic victory of the Soviet Union over the fascist Axis, and remember your obligation to attack fascists with all ferocity if they show their faces or dare attempt to indoctrinate our children! The deaths of more than 40,000,000 innocent people are on all of our shoulders, their bold sacrifice in defiance to fascist invasion hanging on us like a shroud. To betray their sacrifice and to coddle neo-fascists is only the worst kind of treason.

Then I should've been executed at the age of 13. I read the majority of neo-Nazis denounce their ideology before the age of 24. Killing them whilst them not engaging in such activities prevents them from seeing the light.

Even fascists have the right to freedom of speech, but when they touch someone, "send them to the cemetery".

[Tim Cornelis]

Well just imagine this for a second. You have successfully overthrown the capitalists and have set up a workers government where you live. Would you allow the people who are going to use all of their energy to destroy it into the government itself? Will you allow FOX news to sit there and brainwash people's minds with apocalyptic visions of how bad communism is or are you going to appropriate their property(thereby getting rid of their freedom speech)? Most bourgoeis rights are heavily intertwined with what we seek to destroy which is private property.

Yes I would accord them all those rights to spread their lies how frustrating it may be.

[tachosomoza]

Well just imagine this for a second. You have successfully overthrown the capitalists and have set up a workers government where you live. Would you allow the people who are going to use all of their energy to destroy it into the government itself? Will you allow FOX news to sit there and brainwash people's minds with apocalyptic visions of how bad communism is or are you going to appropriate their property(thereby getting rid of their freedom speech)? Most bourgoeis rights are heavily intertwined with what we seek to destroy which is private property.

How exactly would we appropriate their property? The only way I would see this happening is through force. They never get off of anything voluntarily.

[Welshy]

Yes I would accord them all those rights to spread their lies how frustrating it may be.

Then I guess you will get to enjoy seeing your comrades getting executed by the very fascists you allowed to spread.

Also as far as the whole a lot of fascists renouncing their beliefs by the the age of 24 thing is concerned, I think that's great. But if a bunch of 18 year old neo-nazi with guns advocate the defeat of the workers' revolution, then it necessary for the survival of the revolution and a lot of workers' if we do away with them as soon as possible. Not necessarily kill, but prevent them from spreading their hate and being a force.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yes I would accord them all those rights to spread their lies how frustrating it may be.

Then how the fuck are you a communist if you're not going to dismantle a huge corporation which FOX news is apart of?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

How exactly would we appropriate their property? The only way I would see this happening is through force. They never get off of anything voluntarily.

Good thing we're not pacifists right.

[tachosomoza]

Good thing we're not pacifists right.

The only thing that Malcolm X said that I can agree with: "A peaceful revolution is a failed revolution from the get-go."

[Flying Trotsky]

Revolution is an inherently authoritarian process.

I am open to hearing suggestions on how others think revolution can be defended while protecting the freedom of fascists to organize?

That's simply not true- there's no purer expression of democracy than a revolution.

[Welshy]

That's simply not true- there's no purer expression of democracy than a revolution.

You have the majority of society (the workers) disposing and enforcing its will upon a minority (the capitalists) and taking their property. That is pretty authoritarian.

[Flying Trotsky]

You have the majority of society (the workers) disposing and enforcing its will upon a minority (the capitalists) and taking their property. That is pretty authoritarian.

Rule of the majority? That's the very definition of democracy.

[Flying Trotsky]

But let's change things up a bit.

The consensus so far is "Fascists use their free speech to infringe on the rights of others, so confronting them is justified".

I agree. But if your grandmother, or some old relative, is making racist remarks? What do you do with regards to their free speech?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Rule of the majority? That's the very definition of democracy.

The act of taking away someone's property, overthrowing through force a government, etc, is authoritarian but it can also be democratic.

[Dr Mindbender]

The 92 fatalities in Norway are empirical proof of what happens when you give political margin to these scum.

[The Douche]

Rule of the majority? That's the very definition of democracy.

The majority does what? It rules? So its exercising its authority.


People have this idea that "authoritarian" means a minority are in charge, but thats not anywhere in the definition of the word.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Fascists aren't human ergo they have no rights

[tachosomoza]

Fascists aren't human ergo they have no rights

They're very much human, but they often think that others aren't. Look at chimp out.com for an example.