Econ or Eco ?

[Fidelbrand]

What do u have to say ?

What do u have to say about U.S. 's retreat from the Kyoto protocol few years ago , when Bush feared that environmental protection would impede its own country's economic progression ??

I think this is a pretty bastardized act , as the developed countires and developing countries follow suit to undermine ent. protection~!!

Suprisingly, Bush's bumb-chum -----> Tony Blair 's UK, is the only country (among the great powers) that crys for the emphasis of ent. protection~~

[ComradeRobertRiley]

we need to find a way to protect the environment and eco system as much as we can but at the same time develope the country, I think the USA's stance on the matter is disgusting

[RedAnarchist]

The environment is for ever - the economy is always changing.

We must protect the environment before the economy.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yeah xphile i agree with that

[Fidelbrand]

We 3 agreed with the same perspective....

Any capitalists / hard-line opportunisitic ring-wingers / economists who only know the the importance of PVs (present value) here.... who wanna say something??

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yeah we'd kick their arse LOL

[RyeN]

I totaly agree.

Check out this thread http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...=ST&f=4&t=17863

[ComradeRobertRiley]

RyeN I agree those americans make me sick, polluting much more than anyone else

[apathy maybe]

So if we sold telstra and spent the money on the environment that would be a good thing?

[BuyOurEverything]

I'm all for cutting down pollution and protecting the environment but I think we need to do more research on this. The earth's temperature goes up and down and right now we're still coming out of an ice age.

[pedro san pedro]

buyoureverything -the research has been done -look at bodies such as the un intergovernmental panel on climate change -2500 climate scientists. everyone agrees that global tempature fluctuation is a natural occurance, but that humanity is speeding it up at a clossal rate.
there are already 150,000 "climate refugees" from the pacific island of tuvalue
the WHO attributed 116,000 deaths (due to things like increased tropical diseases eg malaria, dyngey fever) directly to human induced climate change.
this is happening.
we must address this issue

[BuyOurEverything]

Greenhouse gases heat up the earth but it hasn't been clearly shown how much human produced gases are actually heating up the Earth. The fact that people have been evacuated from islands and such doesn't prove that CO2 is heating the Earth. In fact the more that happens, the more people look for something easy to blame, like pollution. Species have become extinct because of climate change long before humans were ever here with their factories. This isn't to say that I oppose the Kypto Protocol at all, I'm just saying that climate change is an inevitablility and we should do all we can to prevent it but it's far from clear that after we stop pumping out greenhouse gases that the Earth will cool off again and everything will go back to normal.

[pedro san pedro]

if you measure co2 from ice core samples, it is shown that there is drastically more co2 in the atmosphere today than in any time in the past 35000, if not more, years. there is a huge jump, right about the time of the industrial revolution.
will try to find a source for you

[BuyOurEverything]

OK but 35000 years isn't a very long time.

[apathy maybe]

It doesn't matter if the economy goes to shit, we can always start again. But if we screw up our environment then we can't.

The natural environment is a lot more importent then a few jobs. Is it more important then a few lives but?
After all if we cut down a 2000 year old tree, we are hardly likly to see its like again.
If we wipe out the whales, are we going to see another species like that? I think the answer to that question is no.

[redstar2000]

I hope people will understand what global warming due to greenhouse gases actually means...

It means warmer nights, not hotter days.

It means warmer winters, not hotter summers.

Its effects are most extreme at the poles and decrease steadily as you get closer to the equator...where the effect is too small to measure.

Next year, some part of the Earth's surface will have a "record-breaking heat wave"...that's a safe prediction because that happens every year.

Some places on the Earth's surface will experience the full fury of a hurricane...that happens every year.

Real climate change is very difficult to measure and takes a long time (by human lifespan measures)...please don't panic when the media tries to scare the crap out of you to boost ratings or sell newspapers.

Global warming is real enough. But it will be a long time before palm trees flourish in London and the ski resorts shut down in Norway because it doesn't snow there anymore.



The RedStar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[apathy maybe]

Global warming is real enough. But it will be a long time before palm trees flourish in London and the ski resorts shut down in Norway because it doesn't snow there anymore.

It maybe a long time before the palm trees flourush in London, but don't bet on a long time for the snow to melt in Norway.

Even if various people are predicting catastrphic events with in months. I mean when the world goes to shit it will go quick.

We maynot get a real hot winter anyway, apparently global warming will screw up the golf stream and make northen Europle uninhabitable. And that will lead to a new ice age.

Real climate change is very difficult to measure and takes a long time (by human lifespan measures)...please don't panic when the media tries to scare the crap out of you to boost ratings or sell newspapers.

Real climate change may take a long time, but Human induced change can happen like that.
"These points were made by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in a major assessment of the problem. That report predicted average global temperature increases between 1.4°C and 5.8°C during this century, the most rapid warming the world has experienced in 10,000 years. The worst case scenario of a rise of 5.8°C would result if efforts to resolve the problem continue to be as ineffectual as they have been over the past decade."
This is from Colin Mason book The 2030 Spike, it predicts that it will all go to shit in the 2030s, "A catistrophic future for the globe through the convergence of six driving forces - depleted oil supplies, water shortages, population growth, climate change, nuclear proliferation and poverty."
that is only 30 years a way. I intended to be around then and I hope that it won't come about. But if it does, it pays to be prepared.

Even if it is wrong, well it is better to start fixing things now then to worry about it when it is too late.

[BuyOurEverything]

In theory I definately support protection of the environment over short term economic gain but like redstar said, there is a lot of misunderstanding about global warming and its causes.

[RyeN]

Two of the major sources of oZone depletion are CFC's and HC1. CFC's are the man made and produced by large companies. HC1 is a natural depleter of the ozone, caused by volcanic eruptions. Example, when Mt. Pinatubo erupted it had a VUE of 5-6 and released an estimated 30 Mega tons of stratospheric aerosol all at once. Thats more CFC's than most large Industirys used in a year. This was one of the most devestating but there are others, El Chichon 12 Mt of HC1 and St. Helen's 5.5 Mt.

[BuyOurEverything]

That's true but ozone depletion has nothing to do with greenhouse gasses.