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400,000 Libyans demonstrating their support for Gaddafi
+ YouTube Video
That is quite a crowd
"The spiritual atom bomb that the revolutionary people possess is a far more powerful and useful weapon than the physical atom bomb"
-Lin Biao
Wow.
Just to put it in perspective, the population of Tripoli is about 1 million. The population of the whole of Libya is about 6 million. In other words this crowd is not just representative of a huge portion of the Libyan people; they are a huge portion of the libyan people.
Formerly zenga zenga !
Perhaps, the United States and NATO's blatant Imperialism and Russia and China's unwillingness to act in the interest of Libya when intervention had came about-- Will steer Libya further from Neo-Liberalism.
Undoubtedly. We can be sure of a return to "pariah state" of the 80s if Gaddafi makes it through this
Formerly zenga zenga !
It appears the numbers that Marxach-Léinínach had provided were significantly lower than the actual numbers of those that had been demonstrating against NATO Imperialism on July First; It had been 1,000,000 + as opposed to simply 400,000.
I'm going to cop a lot of shit for what I'm about to say but I'll say it anyway. Libyans have genuine material reasons for supporting the Gaddafi regime in this conflict.
"Machinery in itself is a victory of man over the forces of nature, but in the hands of capital it makes man the slave of those forces" - Uncle Karl
Of course they do.
National capitalism is better than comprador capitalism.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
Why are Stalinists always so eager to point to fascistoid spectacles as proof of a regime's popular support, rather than to any sort of actual democratic content in the governmental model that would allow it to be expressed organically? Is it because- and stop me if I'm being crazy here- because there isn't any, so these Hiterlite mass-wankathons are all they have?
The Libyan people under Gaddafi are armed. Every household has a gun. If they didn't like Gaddafi they would turn their guns on him, but they don't, instead they turn their guns on the rebel scumbags and demonstrate in support of Gaddafi in the hundreds of thousands at a time. The way you rebelites deny reality is just ridiculous
"The spiritual atom bomb that the revolutionary people possess is a far more powerful and useful weapon than the physical atom bomb"
-Lin Biao
It depends, if this was a state organized event then I'd agree with you, however if this was a spontaneous gathering then it should stand as proof of the regimes popular support. Because its absurd to set the criterion that only functioning democratic regimes can have popular support. "Fascistoid spectacles" are perfect examples of non-democratic states that have mass support from the populace. But going back to Libya, I don't know anything about the context or the background of these events, so I can't state whether or not this proves Gaddafi has the support of the masses...Why are Stalinists always so eager to point to fascistoid spectacles as proof of a regime's popular support, rather than to any sort of actual democratic content in the governmental model that would allow it to be expressed organically? Is it because- and stop me if I'm being crazy here- because there isn't any, so these Hiterlite mass-wankathons are all they have?
Seeing as you're of the opinion that anyone who actually does choose to turn their guns on Gaddafi is a "rebel scumbag", I'm honestly not sure what point you think that you're making, here.
Ok so half the population of Tripoli are there waving green flags etc, but some people on this forum still believe that Gaddafi is pure evil and only holding onto power by terrorising the people or whatever (despite them being armed) ; whereas the mix of al qaeda fighters, monarchists, arab supremecists, etc who are constantly praising the NATO bombing of civilians in Tripoli are apparently the forces of progress and are representative of the people of Libya.
seriously what the fuck
Formerly zenga zenga !
Oh good. We can trust the people at "whatreallyhappened.com". Sure they quote Ayn Rand and belive in the 9/11 conspiracy, are "birthers" but this has to be legit.
I'd like to see some more evidence supporting the authenticity of this video. Perhaps we should also look at critically examining evidence before we begin throwing out that it's real or legitimate or proof of what actually is happening.
[FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]-Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
Thank you, Christ. If the people were the state, than they would just organize and 'do' whatever. They wouldn't need to be assembled en masse to prove something about their fealty toward Gaddhafi.Why are Stalinists always so eager to point to fascistoid spectacles as proof of a regime's popular support, rather than to any sort of actual democratic content in the governmental model that would allow it to be expressed organically? Is it because- and stop me if I'm being crazy here- because there isn't any, so these Hiterlite mass-wankathons are all they have?
Everyone else: were Nazi rallies proof of the popular and democratic content of the Nazi state?
Jesus fucking think about this.
Neither Gaddafi nor the NATO-backed-rebels are completely "correct" in this situation, and neither deserve our complete "support." It's quite clear that this situation is a terrible one and the working class (i.e. the people) is not being represented in either situation, nor are they being empowered in any real material sense.
So you don't have to pick a side and say it's right or better than the other. It's entirely acceptable to say that each side has extreme faults and in different relative situations brings different positive attributes to the table.
So let's stop this political posturing and chest thumping, it's childish and silly.
- August
If we have no business with the construction of the future or with organizing it for all time, there can still be no doubt about the task confronting us at present: the ruthless criticism of the existing order, ruthless in that it will shrink neither from its own discoveries, nor from conflict with the powers that be.
- Karl Marx
This isn't an issue of "who is right" or "who should we 'support'" (whatever the fuck "support" means in any meaningful practice; I guess activists in their ghettos trying to call out each others' street cred -- some real advancing of the workers' struggle there).
There's a real point of discussion of whether passive marches and displays mean something in terms of social content. I argue they do sometimes when organized here, or say Greece, but that is precisely in terms of mobilizing people to physically confront the state power and authorities. What meaning does it have when the people purportedly control the state? Where they are just supporting the state?
It becomes obvious that the only plausible explanation is the necessity of the regime to mobilize de facto obligatory shows of support and loyalty, and to provide it with propaganda reels for consumption abroad.
Yeah, them people must all be CGI or something
"The spiritual atom bomb that the revolutionary people possess is a far more powerful and useful weapon than the physical atom bomb"
-Lin Biao
Most Germans did support the Nazis
"The spiritual atom bomb that the revolutionary people possess is a far more powerful and useful weapon than the physical atom bomb"
-Lin Biao
Does that mean Nazi rallies were "spontaneous" acts of popular support and confidence? That there was no opposition? That the Nazi state was, as quoted, "popular and democratic"?
Or you know, old footage being reused. Or the number of people is overstated. I don't know about you, but I don't tend to believe that a bunch of right-wing conspiracy theorists are the best source for accurate and reliable information.Yeah, them people must all be CGI or something
Seriously, go look at their website. That's the group that uploaded the video. Go see other videos on their youtube chanel.
http://www.whatsreallyhappening.com
[FONT=Arial]“Whoever labours becomes a proprietor... And when I say proprietor, I do not mean simply (as do our hypocritical economists) proprietor of his allowance, his salary, his wages, – I mean proprietor of the value he creates, and by which the master alone profits... The labourer retains, even after he has received his wages, a natural right in the thing he has produced.”[/FONT]-Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?, pg. 123-4
COMMUNISM !