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Gay Pride Makes No Sense
just as white pride, tall pride or ginger pride makes no sense.
If homosexuality is something someone is born with (ie: there is no choice), then so is every other feature we have, and it makes no sense to be proud of being tall, of having a predisposition to cancer or any other condition.
If homosexuality is, on the other hand, a choice, why should someone be proud of its sexual choices, and not of something more meaningful? And when i say someone shouldnt be proud of sexual choices, it goes for both ways. It also makes no sense for some heterosexual man or woman to be proud of how many people he or she has managed to 'penetrate'... (theoretically, one could be proud of the skills involved of convincing someone to have sex with you, but that might be a little off-topic)
Am I the only one who thinks this way? does this line of reasoning also makes sense to any of you?
Also, just because i think gay pride doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean i think homosexuality is wrong, or that gay rights should not exist. of course its not wrong, and of course they should have the same rights as all human beings.
To speculate is human; to hedge, divine
you're right
i prefer gay shame
I do not see the gay "pride" parades as show of pride.
Most people who parade are demanding equal rights and no discrimination. After all homosexuals are discriminated against only because of their sexual preference..
“To revolt is a natural tendency of life. Even a worm turns against the foot that crushes it. In general, the vitality and relative dignity of an animal can be measured by the intensity of its instinct to revolt.”
The point of it isn't to be "i'm so happy im gay" or "I'm gay and better", but to say "i'm more than okay with who I am, and it's time you became more than okay with it too!"
White pride is just arrogance that suggests there is a threat to the white race. The mentality isn't "you should be okay with us being white" it's "we are white, and we wont apologize! We're better!"
Point, everyone is okay with white people being white, because they've held the power in American society for hundreds of years.
It's about power imbalance, and equality, as opposed to biblical pride.
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(Addressing the OP)
You are completely missing the point of Pride. You are just like those people who think Black nationalism is a reactionary racist ideology.
But then in the concrete sense it's all about fighting for equal rights, whatever you call it doesn't really matter anyway. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet".
Last edited by Queercommie Girl; 22nd June 2011 at 15:40.
[FONT=System]Long Live Proletarian Democracy!
Down with All Imperialisms!
[/FONT]
As far as I'm aware, the original use of the word 'pride' had more to do with the previously widespread (and, unfortunately, still present in some quarters) idea that homosexuality is something to be 'ashamed' of. In that context, pride is meant only to convey the complete rejection of shame. Hopefully we are progressing towards a time when the use of the word 'pride' may become somehow inappropriate, but this is reliant on one no longer being expected to feel shame for ones sexuality. I don't think that gay pride exists outside of the context of the expectation of gay shame. But maybe I should add more to this post, as the expectation of shame isn't the only factor that contributes to all this.
In my opinion, gay pride is not about saying: Your straight and therefore worthless. Its because gay people have continually been harassed and still are being harassed that they feel they should stand up for themselves! Its about saying: Look, im confident about who i am so dont even try bashing me, because that will not diminish my pride! It's taking a stand against the fact that in our modern society, the level of tolerance is still quite low to gay people. If everyone was really that tolerant, i doubt people would go around saying they are gay because no one would care! it would just be accepeted. But the fact that people are always being attacked and intimidated for being gay gives a poor report of the level of tolerance in our society. People are uniting under the slogan "gay pride" to stem against the tide of shitty right wing discrimination! What else can they do? Say: you hate me because i am gay, and im cool with that? Your not gonna give me my rights? See it as a different type of struggle, inter-class struggle against discrimination, raising awareness and fighting for equality. Because being gay transcends race, nationality and the whole other stuff.
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." -Lord Dunsany
"As a Marxist, as a Communist and as a free human being, I oppose any Czar, Dear Leader, Premier, Emperor, Kaiser, Dictator, etc, etc. So I tell you; to hell with your Stalins, Hitlers, Maos, and Francos. I oppose any tyrant not because he kills a million people, but because he is a tyrant. I say no to tyranny and oppression, and anyone who disagrees does not belong here." - Iron Felix
Gay pride taken literally would be just as illogical as white pride, or any other form of pride.
However like a lot of political terms, "gay pride" usually does not stand for such a thing in the literal sense of the words, but as an expression of some form of sentiment that "there isn't anything wrong with being gay." or "gays shouldn't be victimised for their sexuality" or something similar.
Of course, I think, partly encouraged by the literal meaning of the words, there is a not insignificant amount of people who believe in gay pride, or black pride or whatever, who to an extent interpret these terms literally and support that. They feel that because blacks or gays are discriminated against, they should actually be proud of being gay or black, in order to "balance out" the oppression, or that such sentiments are acceptable because those groups are generally oppressed, which I feel is a mistake.
Aww, SHADDAP!
It doesn't mean pride in the sense of it being an achievement, it means pride in the sense of the opposite of shame. It is a statement that homosexuality is not shameful and that gay people can feel pride in themselves. I have to say that I have no particular attraction to gay pride myself, in more tolerant parts of the world they are just street parties now. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but hardly my thing. There is little that could be described as political about them in Scotland now for instance (apart from all the straight politicians who always show up to show themselves as gay friendly) so its original goal has probably been achieved. But if people want to have fun and enjoy themselves, I am not so grouchy that I am going to complain about that!
So why call them gay pride parade and not gay rights parade?
To speculate is human; to hedge, divine
So since theyre not using the world 'pride' literally, why not say: 'im happy about being gay!' instead of 'im proud of being gay!' ?
To speculate is human; to hedge, divine
Its not so much about being proud of being gay, but about being proud to be able to get over the social prejudice and stigmata linked to being gay.
Personally i think gay pride is a bit of a misnomer, should be called the gay affirmative action.
WHY kléber, WHY!!!!!!!
Gay pride makes a lot of sense if you're willing to acknowledge that the concept of "gay pride" came out of a specific, real-world history of a political movement for gay liberation. In a world with no oppression, generalized full equality and no history, I would absolutely agree with you. Such a world would have virtually nothing in common with our own.
Is this the thread where we are eventually going to argue that all homosexual men are mysogenistic bastards? (and...o yes...this gem was once actually used by someone I, sadly, know in their little anti-gay rant)
Why the hell does it matter if they call it gay-pride? Why shouldn't they be proud of themselves? Essentially I have no problem with groups in the face of oppression being proud of something they are against the norm which is pressed upon them. There is an essential and qualitative difference between belonging to an oppressive majority which superimposes their "whatever"-"identity" as the superior way of life on society and culture expressing their pride....because the statement "I am white and I am proud" is a statement not made in a vacuum but in the context of white dominance over others....it becomes a statement of exclusion. The same goes for hetrosexuality.
When a minority, whether they be gay, European Ethnic, or a person of "color", shows pride, they are demonstrating their belief that, after eons of discrimination and oppression, that they are finally self aware enough to realize that they have the right to live on this Earth and be treated equally. When a majority group shows "pride", they are demonstrating reaction and their desire to maintain the oppressive status quo for minorities.
My machine my machine,
Please bring my machine.
"Pride" is better for mass mobilization than "affirmative action" or something else. Its a concept that everyone can understand and rally around, it has more broad appeal.
As a member of the LGBTQ community, after living a life told to feel ashamed about who you are, to claim the opposite, to openly proclaim PRIDE, is an act of defiance. That feeling of defiance is personally liberating and effecvtive in getting people involved.
But never once did anyone I've ever marched with, or I myself, ever feel that it had a chauvenistic vibe or anything. We never felt better than anyone else, and I dont think anyone ever thought that was the message or the point.
Altho as per the OP, I understand what your saying. The post makes sense, and in a communist society, we wont need gay "pride" or black nationalism, because people will just be people. But untill then, we need it as a tool, as a weapon. Because homophobia and racism still exist.
I have people in my own family who think that homosexuality is the supreme vice of humanity, my mother beat the shit out of me when I was a wee fella for being "effeminate". And to finally say: I DONT GIVE A FUCK IM PROUD, gave me a taste of what the Revolution is.
Sorry if this post got a little cheesy but what the hell
Gay pride is necessary because homosexuals are constantly jeered against, mocked, or even violently assaulted. People need to know that they should be proud of their sexual orientation regardless of what anyone says. Take this as an example. Have you ever heard the mainstream media say that whites are defective or that they behave the wrong way? How often to do you things about gays being cured, or that homosexuality is morally wrong, decadent, or anything of the such. How often do you hear of gay marriage as an "assault on the family". You occasionally even get people saying that gays should be imprisoned or killed. Do you ever hear that white people are ruining marriage? No. Then you understand why gay pride is necessary.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
I agree. All these gay gangs smashing straight people just because of their sexuality, throwing gay pride logos all over the place. Just like the white pride gangs, its the same thing. Somebody needs to put an end to this.
