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Patriotism/Nationalism
Can anyone possibly defend this, especially if you live in a very reactionary nation like the US? Why should you be proud just because you were born in and live in a certain country, especially when its actions should cause shame rather than pride?
[FONT=Arial Narrow]Economic Left/Right: -9.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67 [/FONT]
Bourgeois nationalism or stuff like black nationalism? Because there is a big long thread about that already.
Freedom before Peace
I mean bullshit like "Well, I'm an American so I'm more important than you cause you come from some other country" or "my country right or wrong", etc.
[FONT=Arial Narrow]Economic Left/Right: -9.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67 [/FONT]
Brainwashing via public education system is to blame for that.
Ah, I don't see how anyone on here could support stupidity like that but who knows I've run into some stupid people on here lol
Freedom before Peace
Really I don't see the point of nationalism or patriotism unless they have something to legitimately boast about which I don't think anyone can.
Man the USA really ain't that bad as far as raw nationalism is concerned. Sure there are plenty of patriotic yahoos who'll wave the flag and are plenty proud to be an 'murikan, but read a book about former Yugoslavia in the early 90's and then tell me that the USA is a nationalistic nation. The USA at least emits propaganda that anyone can come to the USA and become an American; the reality of the situation as far as immigrant's rights & upward mobility may be a different story than the propaganda would let on as far as how you'll be treated here, but at least that's the talking point. Compare that to the attitudes of many European nations...hell it was only relatively recently that Germany allowed Turkish Germans who were born in Germany to become citizens!
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
It's surprisingly easy to fall into. I used to be pretty nationalistic, though not like other people are less than me because I'm American kind of nationalism, like I'm proud of my homeland or something kind of nationalism. Actually, I'd say it's hard not to when you're constantly bombarded by pro-America war movies, when you say the pledge of allegiance every day in school, when there are American flags fucking everywhere, when almost every single adult you meet as a child (at least in the south) tells you how damn great America is and how lucky we are to live there, when soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines are glorified and treated as something more than human by civilians, when almost every single thing shown to children enforces patriarchy, is pro-America, and encourages us to buy brand names and not think twice about listening to our wonderful government, and when you can't turn on the damn TV without seeing something about America's "enemies" trying to do something, often with materials provided by the US or after being provoked by the US, but they were stopped by our all-powerful, friendly, protective, fair and just government. *cue waving flag background with an eagle in the foreground as the national anthem plays*
Basically, incessant propaganda that's reinforced by those who had the misfortune of buying into it years ago and who are unknowingly continuing a vicious cycle.
The only Nazis I like are Grammar Nazis and ex-Nazis. I would say dead ones as well, but they tend to smell.
Mama's Whiskey-fried Fish Hoecakes, fried twice cause she wants me
I was actually screamed at that I should go move to Russia by the school bus driver in 4th grade for saying "Who cares about the flag?" This was in the early-mid 1980s.
[FONT=Arial Narrow]Economic Left/Right: -9.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67 [/FONT]
Haha I was arguing with my science teacher last year as a freshmen for having a copy of "Das Kapital" on my desk. I lost my shit when she started yelling at me because she was like "Communism is horrible! We have troops overseas in Iraq fighting that right now!" and I was like "No we don't. . .! You are fuckin' ludicrous!" and she went on a rampage for like 15 whole minutes and ended with "AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE TROOPS THEN YOU CAN GO BACK TO CHINA" (I was never even from China to begin with...) so I just walked out and she was like "Where do you think you are going?" and I replied "China." and went to the office and sat there the whole time.
[FONT="Century Gothic"]"Democracy is the road to socialism" ~Karl Marx
“I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting.” ~Che Guevara
"Capitalism is using its money; we socialists throw it away." ~Fidel Castro
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Another reason that I see nationalism and patriotism as pointless is because we don't get to chose what country we are born in, we just happen to be born there, so if someone who is overly proud to be an American thinks America is any better than Iraq or Germany or Russia, doesn't mean that it is, because there is also people who were born involuntarily in all of those other countries who all think the same thing.
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I cannot be proud to be American as long as the country is overrun with crooks in high places in government,
owned and operated by organized crime from private enterprise.
I do, however, believe in freedom and justice. Too bad these ideals are sorely lacking and actually under attack here.
money is to politics as fertilizer is to garden weeds.
:facepalm:
Sad a teacher would be that ignorant as to believe the Taliba/Al Qaeda are communist. Probably from the Cold War-era brainwashing of "all bad guys are communists."
[FONT=Arial Narrow]Economic Left/Right: -9.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67 [/FONT]
As space and time are one, I have a suggestion that makes exactly as much sense as nationalism. I think instead of basing our group identities on where we were born, we should base them on when we born. I'm certainly going to demand the end of January back from those Aquarian bastards. In fact, I think we should kill all of them that won't join in the Republic of Capricornia.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
No you shouldn't promote or advance nationalism. Nationalism should only-and I repeat only be used in drastic situations. Those being the causes of national liberation. Not in advanced capitalist nations. Nationalism is the loyalty to a bourgeois state because you were born there. Its reactionary. In the United States, Europe and the industrialized world, nationalism is a major no-no. Perhaps it is okay to use it as a point of rhetoric. These capitalists are destroying our country-- is an example of a decent point of rhetoric. However, rhetoric like our country is great and should control the world--fuck no. I support the Iraq invasion because I love my country--fuck no.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
Patriotism is the love of one's own country, nationalism is the hatred of another's.
-www.revleft.org-
Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
красные лисы
You make a good point about Nationalism only being relevant in drastic situations. In Europe at the moment Nationalism is becoming increasingly relevant due to the attempt to surplant nation states with the EU.
Even when nationalism is used by quasi-lefties its reactionary. By saying that we need "national liberation" or "capitalists are destroying our country" you are in fact proposing the ludicrous idea that everyone in country X shares the country and have something in common, thereby hiding class struggle behind the veil of national unity. The working class has no nation, and it has already created all too many nations for the local bourgeoisies all over the world in the name of national liberation. Fuck third-worldism forever.
Avanti barbarati
Absolutely agree with this, Was gonna say something along the same thing.
HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
Because it alllllll stems from Public education...nothing to do with the government, or the system that the government represents, or the news, or the corporate interests or anything like that.
