Why is Black Nationalism allowed on the Forum?

[The Man]

if White Nationalism isn't allowed, why should Black Nationalism be?

Racial Nationalism is putrid and disgusting, no matter if it Black or White, Red or Blue. Were all humans. So why should we allow a Black Nationalist? But not a White Nationalist?

There is literally no difference in between the Black (Wo)man and the White (Wo)man.

I am in favor of banning Black Nationalists and White Nationalists, or for that matter, any type of Racial Nationalists. I want to see what you guys think.

[Khunying]

The simple answer: because certain elements of the left have co-opted black politics and made them an specially designated victim class.

White Nazis, Black Nazis, same difference to me; except unlike blacks whites actually do have a real culture as something other than barbarians. All this fake-Africa shit and naming yourself 'Mutumbo' and converting to Islam (lol, the main slave traders) just makes them look retarded.

And the Nation of Islam is a God damn joke.

[a rebel]

I know it doesn't make sense, but for some reason it's racist if we say anything.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Nationalists are idiots. I don't really care who they identify with. German nationalists, Jewish nationalists, Rhodesian Nationalists, Black nationalists, white nationalists, etc.

All of them, are blind to the real issue of class, and in fact cause division in class and hinder the class struggle.

I voted "I don't care". Because I don't care. If you think 5x2 =7, then you're an idiot, and I don't care if you want to tell people that publicly.

Edit: This applies to nationalism in the sense of superiority, not in the sense of liberation. Which is why Black "nationalists" such as the Black Panthers, should use the term liberation, not nationalism.

[Tommy4ever]

I guess its the same reason why Irish Republicanism is supported so much whilst Ulster Unionism is condemned as Fascist (in the revleft sense of the word - ie a totally meaningless insult).

With both Irish Republicanism and Black Nationalism the nationalist ideology seeks to fight on the side of a blatantly oppressed group (perhaps the situation in Ireland has changed over the past 2 or 3 decades, but in America the black population remains clearly oppressed). This idea of fighting against oppression, even if that means using rather vile ideas like nationalism and racism, if generally seen as acceptable on the Left whilst fighting for the status qou is regarded as despicable.

These nationalism have also traditionally mixed together with left wing ideology in the same way as the 'oppressive nationalisms' have mixed together with right wing ideologies. These nationalisms, if not always openly socialistic, very often contain ideas of wealth distribution, civil rights etc.

Black Nationalism, Irish Republicanism and other 'left wing nationalisms' are therefore both tolerated and supported.

[Khunying]

(in the revleft sense of the word - ie a totally meaningless insult).

This made me smile, so true.

[hatzel]

unlike blacks whites actually do have a real culture as something other than barbarians

I have literally no idea why you're restricted. Seriously. No idea.



EDIT: oh, now banned. Ignore me!

[Die Rote Fahne]

I have literally no idea why you're restricted. Seriously. No idea.



EDIT: oh, now banned. Ignore me!

Lolz! Banned for being a homophobe...after 6 posts...

[#FF0000]

Black nationalism a la Huey Newton and the Black Panthers have really nothing in common with white nationalism.

There are a lot of other arguments as well, e.g. that black nationalism/black pride aren't oppressive like white pride is because white pride/nationalism reinforce privilege in society while black pride/nationalism is a defensive thing that is aimed to correct inequality and privilege.

[tachosomoza]

I'd actually support the banning of black nationalism, along with other nationalistic tendencies. They give leftists as a whole a bad name, and supporting them makes us look extremely contradictory and hypocritical.

FF: The Black Panthers, in their early stages, were a racist organization that wanted to create a seperate state for people of African descent only. The NoI still supports this.

[agnixie]

Black nationalism a la Huey Newton and the Black Panthers have really nothing in common with white nationalism.

There are a lot of other arguments as well, e.g. that black nationalism/black pride aren't oppressive like white pride is because white pride/nationalism reinforce privilege in society while black pride/nationalism is a defensive thing that is aimed to correct inequality and privilege.

The Black Panthers also rejected black nationalism in the 70s and reject the NBPP on that charge, among others.

[tachosomoza]

The Black Panthers also rejected black nationalism in the 70s and reject the NBPP on that charge, among others.

The NBPP is like the black version of the National Socialist Movement. Half of their members have been to prison, and they exist only to instigate and cause trouble for the people they claim to represent.

[ComradeMan]

All nationalisms are stupid... but what about this...

reposted later on in thread ->

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

'if White Nationalism isn't allowed, why should Black Nationalism be?'

As African Americans and Africans have been systematically oppressed by Imperialism throughout History and require the need for Self-Determination against Imperialism and White Political Rule.

Black Nationalism and Pan-Africanism is not to be confused with White Nationalism, as Black Nationalism is pushing forward Self-Determination and Liberation against Imperialism. Where as White Nationalism exists in order to maintain Racial Supremacy, Imperialism and Fascism.

'Racial Nationalism is putrid and disgusting, no matter if it Black or White, Red or Blue.'
Left-Nationalism that is used in an Anti-Imperialist fashion in order to push forward Liberation is to be accepted.
'Were all humans.'
Indeed, however while Imperialism and Capitalism continues to exist... Humanity is currently divided and in order to achieve liberation, racially oppressed and marginalized groups must push forward a cause of Self-Determination.
'So why should we allow a Black Nationalist?'
As Black Nationalism and Pan-Africanism is Anti-Imperialist in nature and seeks to push forward Self-Determination and Liberation. Africans have historically and continue to suffer under the conditions of Imperialism and the response to Imperialism has been the need for African Unity in order to form a United Front against Imperialism and maintain a Unified African State.

Black Nationalism seeks to build a Self-Determined State as a response to the conditions put upon the African American Community by those that had systematically enslaved, exploited and slaughtered Africans. Not to mention, have forced the African American Proletariat into Urban Areas that have some of the worst conditions in American Society and offer them Economic Enslavement and potentially Physical Enslavement through the Prison Environment.

'But not a White Nationalist?'

As 'White' Nationalism is Parasitic in its very nature and is built out of Fascism, Capitalism and Imperialism. White Nationalism seeks to ethnically cleanse Non-Whites, engage in Segregation-Esque activities and continually push forward Imperialism based out of Racial Beliefs.

[JustMovement]

Well you have to look at these words and what they mean:
I think Black Nationalism can be reactionary; for example The Nation of Islam in the U.S. Usually, though, it is about the struggle for rights in the U.S. and reclaiming a culture that was almost destroyed through the institution of slavery. Also Black Nationalism is an expression of economic and cultural solidarity between Blacks in the U.S. and the Carribean, and Blacks who are exploited in Africa. In this context, and when given this meaning, black nationalism is a progressive, anti-racist struggle, the "black" in black nationalism is not about race, but about cultural and historical ties, and solidarity in the face of oppression.

White Nationalism on the other hand refers exclusively to Nazi/Fascist ideology. There are definetly progressive struggles in "white" nations, but no one in their right mind would describe Irish or Basque national lib movements as "white nationalism".

Basically what I am trying to get at is that it is all a matter of terminilogy. Black nationalism can be about race (reactionary) or it can be about class and cultural liberation (progressive). White nationalism is only about race.

[Kamos]

Both white nationalists and black nationalists perceive themselves as the victim, though. Just go on Stormfront - they always scream "look at us, we're going extinct, blacks and Muslims are trying to kill us". For blacks the way they describe it may be true, but that doesn't matter. I say, ban both. In the long term, it's better to weed out bad ideologies early, instead of forming unholy alliances with the enemies of our enemies.

For the record, white nationalism =/= fascism, although the two very often go together.

[Che a chara]

The difference I think is what both wish to achieve. i haven't seen anyone on here who would describe themselves as a black nationalist seek to excerpt black domination or segregation or any sort of discriminatory societal existence at the expense of whites -- just emancipation and determination, whereas white nationalists predominantly want to impose white privilege, segregation and ethnic cleansing.

historical context must also be taken into equation.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Both white nationalists and black nationalists perceive themselves as the victim, though. Just go on Stormfront - they always scream "look at us, we're going extinct, blacks and Muslims are trying to kill us". For blacks the way they describe it may be true, but that doesn't matter. I say, ban both. In the long term, it's better to weed out bad ideologies early, instead of forming unholy alliances with the enemies of our enemies.

For the record, white nationalism =/= fascism, although the two very often go together.

'Both white nationalists and black nationalists perceive themselves as the victim'
As African Americans had been physically enslaved and brought to the United States and other countries due to Capitalism and Imperialism. Not to mention African Countries suffering under direct Imperialism that has acted in a parasitic nature.

'White' Nationalists however have used 'White' Nationalism in the past to:

*Push forward Imperialism and physically enslave those that were Non-White and found White Nations.
*Ethnically cleanse those within their Homelands in order to allow for their White Nations that were founding on an illegitimate basis to exist.
*Economically exploit Non-Whites and gentrify.

Nor are 'White' Nationalists oppressed as 'White' Nationalists are not enslaved on a racial basis as they live in a 'White' Nation that is founded on illegitimacy.


American 'White' Nationalists:

*Live in a 'White' Nation based upon illegitimacy and the enslavement of the former Non-White Population. (White Nationalism)
*Accuse Non-Whites of attempting to 'Take Over' 'their' Nation as they've been granted legal rights that are at level with Whites...
*Attempt to class said land as 'Theirs' when it is built upon the labor of Non-Whites and the Enslavement of Non-Whites.

'Just go on Stormfront - they always scream "look at us, we're going extinct, blacks and Muslims are trying to kill us". '
They accuse others of this due to the continual legacy of their own Racial Based Imperialism and using this attempt to justify further Racial Imperialism and Supremacy. Not to mention they parade White Settlers as legitimate in nature as opposed to being illegitimate and based out of Racial Supremacy.

'Extinct' is silly as they attempt to deny their privilege as compared to Non-Whites and continual attempts at furthering domination. Not to mention that they attempt to class the United States, South Africa and various other countries as 'White' when the 'White' countries of said countries are based out of Imperialism, Parasitic Relations, Racial Supremacy, Imperialism and Ethnic Cleansing.

[Che a chara]

except unlike blacks whites actually do have a real culture

+ YouTube Video

[tachosomoza]

'Both white nationalists and black nationalists perceive themselves as the victim'
As African Americans had been physically enslaved and brought to the United States and other countries due to Capitalism and Imperialism. Not to mention African Countries suffering under direct Imperialism that has acted in a parasitic nature.

'White' Nationalists however have used 'White' Nationalism in the past to:

*Push forward Imperialism and physically enslave those that were Non-White and found White Nations.
*Ethnically cleanse those within their Homelands in order to allow for their White Nations that were founding on an illegitimate basis to exist.
*Economically exploit Non-Whites and gentrify.

Nor are 'White' Nationalists oppressed as 'White' Nationalists are not enslaved on a racial basis as they live in a 'White' Nation that is founded on illegitimacy.


American 'White' Nationalists:

*Live in a 'White' Nation based upon illegitimacy and the enslavement of the former Non-White Population. (White Nationalism)
*Accuse Non-Whites of attempting to 'Take Over' 'their' Nation as they've been granted legal rights that are at level with Whites...
*Attempt to class said land as 'Theirs' when it is built upon the labor of Non-Whites and the Enslavement of Non-Whites.

I agree with all except that in bold. Most white nationalists come from proletarian backgrounds, and have been duped into siding with the forces of reaction.