Irish polical prisoners

[Irish Left]

Why you alter my post?

[Crux]

Why you alter my post?

Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

[Irish Left]

Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

Well its true whether you accept it or not. Can you not see how stupid they look by saying they support Palestine and POWs there, but not over here, god forbid they may actually have to do something.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Because it's so trendy of course. I am sorry but I can't take that "trendy" bullshit you and other of your persuation sling seriously.

Supporting the Irish Republican Struggle and Irish POW's that are Prisoners due to having engaged in Working Class Struggle for an Independent 32 County Ireland is hardly 'Trendy.'

[Irish Left]

Support Irish POWs!

+ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3JzK...layer_embedded" title="View this video at YouTube in a new window or tab" target="_blank">YouTube Video

[Irish Left]

POW protest this saturday

RNU/Cogus will be holding a white line picket this saturday the 9th July 2011 in Derry city 2pm.

[Irish Left]

Another great video! Support our POWs!

+ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg90L...layer_embedded" title="View this video at YouTube in a new window or tab" target="_blank">YouTube Video

[Irish Left]

Statement from CIRA Prisoners Maghaberry 30/06/11
Statement from the CIRA POWs in Maghaberry Jail

We, the Republican POWs incarcerated in Maghaberry Jail, have tonight 30th
June commenced protest action. The decision to take this action has not
been taken lightly and is a direct result of the non-implementation of the
Agreement which was signed on August 12th 2010.

This Agreement was signed by Republican POWs in good faith. It has became
clear that the British Government and their relevant departments have no
intention of implementing the agreement they signed.

Once again the British Government have embarked on a criminalisation policy
within Maghaberry concentration camp against Republicans, and as such we
are left with no alternative but to commence protest action.

We ask our families, Republicans and comrades for renewed support.

We are Prisoners of War; we cannot be broken or criminalised, and any such
attempt to do either will be met with resistance.

O/C CIRA Maghaberry

[Irish Left]

bump. Support the prisioners of war!!!


End internment now


free marian price!

[Magdalen]

To quote Karl Radek at the Second Comintern Congress: 'It is very easy at the moment to speak out in Britain against intervention in Russia, since even the bourgeois left is against it. It is harder for the British comrades to take up the cause of Irish independence and of anti-militarist activity. We have a right to demand this difficult work of the British comrades'. Ninety years later it appears that Radek's cry has still gone unheard amongst the British Left and their semi-autonomous franchisees in Ireland. Tiocfaidh ár lá!

[Irish Left]

To quote Karl Radek at the Second Comintern Congress: 'It is very easy at the moment to speak out in Britain against intervention in Russia, since even the bourgeois left is against it. It is harder for the British comrades to take up the cause of Irish independence and of anti-militarist activity. We have a right to demand this difficult work of the British comrades'. Ninety years later it appears that Radek's cry has still gone unheard amongst the British Left and their semi-autonomous franchisees in Ireland. Tiocfaidh ár lá!

Agreed 100%%
The left in ireland aka sp swp etc... Love to shout their support for those fighing the occupation of palestine but they completely ignore the ongoing imperialist occupation of Ireland!

[Jolly Red Giant]

Okay - time to set the record straight on a couple of issues

The Socialist Party supports the release of the Republican prisoners who had their licence revoked and have been returned to prison indefinitely.

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/comp...st-be-released

The Socialist Party also supports the two demands put forward by the prisoners - namely -
1. Free Association
2. End to Strip Searches

The Socialist Party would actually go further can call for far more extensive rights for ALL prisoners, not just Republican prisoners.

The Socialist Party does not and will support the campaign of the 32CSM on this issue because is it being fought to raise the profile and increase the support of a republican group - rather than being fought to increase the rights of all prisoners - and, from the Socialist Party's perspective, support for this group is fundementally against the interests of the working class on this island and inhibits the growth of workers unity between Catholic and Protestant workers.

The Socialist Party has been 100% consistant on this issue. During the Hunger Strikes in 1981 the 'Militant' fully supported the five demands of the hungerstrikers and supported the hunger strikers in their call for these demands to be extended to all prisoners. The Militant opposed the campaign waged by Sinn Fein for exactly the same reason that it opposes the current campaign for the 32CSM.

Now saying that I find their economist "gas and water" socialist policies with regards to Imperialism in Ireland as deeply flawed.

The Socialist Party supports the right of the working class on this island to self-determination and as revolutionary socialists campaigns for the defeat and overthrow of British Imperialism on this island and in Britain.

I can understand the rational behind their policies, mainly a reluctance to grasp the thorny issue that is Loyalism and its inherent degenerate supremacist ideology.

The Socialist Party opposes loyalism - a rabid right-wing sectarian ideology - and the difference in terminology is really nothing more than a minor point of argument.

This can be seen with a tepid endorsement of Loyalist triumphalist marchs through Nationalist communities on the 12th or

Being blunt - this is utter bullsh*t - The Socialist Party is opposed to all sectarian marches (loyalist and republican) going through communities where they are not wanted. However, the Socialist Party does not regard the Orange Order as a fascist organisation and does not believe that main arterial routes, thoroughfares or town and city centres can be classed as belonging to one side or the other of sectarian division in the North. As such the Socialist Party defends the right to march and protest on main roads and town centres. To oppose such a right is a reactionary position even if it is being used to oppose reactionary forces. The Socialist Party campaigned against the attempt by SF and the DUP to impose restrictions on the right to march and protest in the North.

their affiliations with the PUP in years gone by, yes the political wing of the UVF.

This is actually a scurrilous comment. The Socialist Party has never had any affiliation with the PUP what so ever. The Socialist Party have debated against the PUP (specifically Billy Hutchinson), against Sinn Fein and against a variety of other republican groups. Republicans have actually invited Billy Hutchinson on protests that they have organised - something the Socialist Party have never done and would never contemplate.

Also an uncomfortable truth for many in the SP is that the SP could only dream of the amount of support the 32CSM/RIRA has in certain working class communities in the North in comparison to the SP.

It is absolutely 100% true that there are many working class Catholic communities where the 32CSM/RIRA has significantly more support than the Socialist Party - is this really a surprise - there are many Protestant working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than the 32CSM and much less than loyalist groups and similarly there are many Catholic working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than loyalists. It is a spurious argument. The question is this - what is the character of the support that the 32CSM/RIRA has in these communites. The Socialist Party would argue that far from being progressive (irrespective of the politics of individual Catholics) this support is sectarian in nature and as a result injurious to the interests of the working class as a whole.

One sphere of working class struggle where the Socialist Party has a significantly bigger based than either the 32CSM or the PUP is within the trade union movement. The Socialist Party has influence and a base far beyond what its size should merit within the trade union movement in the North. It has managed to build this base over an extended period by systematically adopting a working class approach to all iusses, campaigning for workers unity and opposing sectarianism.

Even though I disagree with the RIRA's "armed campaign", even if it could be called an armed campaign, I disagree with it on practical grounds, ideologically it is not individual terrorism and tragetting British Imperial Officers in their colonial constabulary, British Military or Loyalist Death Squads is not in the least bit sectarian. I still think that such a campaign in the current socio-economic context is futile and in no way would ever encourage it but that does not mean I would make the mistake of criticising it on fabricated and misguided ideological grounds.

The Socialist Party (and the Militant) have opposed the republican paramilitary campaign from the outset - not because we have some ideological opposition to using weapons - but because we believe that it is a fundementally flawed strategy based on individual terror (and this is the political term for the nature of the republican paramilitary campaign - not, as republicans always seem to perceive, a swipe at republicanism). The Socialist Party believes that it has not succeeded, it cannot succeed and it will always result in a split in republicanism and a compromise with Imperialism.

As regards the 32CSM/RIRA I recognise them as a reaction to Imperialism.

Absolutely - the root cause of all of these issues is British Imperialism.

I recognise most anti-imperial organisations as being inherently progressive.

Here we must disagree - any organisation that bases itself on one section of the working class is not progressive in any way.

But the 32CSM/RIRA most certainly could not be defined as Socialist.

Again - agree.

the INLA made some major mistakes in its campaign and in many instances neglected the class struggle as it got sucked into an armed campaign with little political direction for various historical reasons, some of their own making and many instances orchestrated by external imperial forces.

Glad you recognise it - but in my opinion the INLA/IRSP is still a very long way to where it can play a progressive role for the working class.

[Irish Left]

Okay - time to set the record straight on a couple of issues

The Socialist Party supports the release of the Republican prisoners who had their licence revoked and have been returned to prison indefinitely.

http://www.socialistpartyni.net/comp...st-be-released

The Socialist Party also supports the two demands put forward by the prisoners - namely -
1. Free Association
2. End to Strip Searches

The Socialist Party would actually go further can call for far more extensive rights for ALL prisoners, not just Republican prisoners.

The Socialist Party does not and will support the campaign of the 32CSM on this issue because is it being fought to raise the profile and increase the support of a republican group - rather than being fought to increase the rights of all prisoners - and, from the Socialist Party's perspective, support for this group is fundementally against the interests of the working class on this island and inhibits the growth of workers unity between Catholic and Protestant workers.

The Socialist Party has been 100% consistant on this issue. During the Hunger Strikes in 1981 the 'Militant' fully supported the five demands of the hungerstrikers and supported the hunger strikers in their call for these demands to be extended to all prisoners. The Militant opposed the campaign waged by Sinn Fein for exactly the same reason that it opposes the current campaign for the 32CSM.


The Socialist Party supports the right of the working class on this island to self-determination and as revolutionary socialists campaigns for the defeat and overthrow of British Imperialism on this island and in Britain.


The Socialist Party opposes loyalism - a rabid right-wing sectarian ideology - and the difference in terminology is really nothing more than a minor point of argument.


Being blunt - this is utter bullsh*t - The Socialist Party is opposed to all sectarian marches (loyalist and republican) going through communities where they are not wanted. However, the Socialist Party does not regard the Orange Order as a fascist organisation and does not believe that main arterial routes, thoroughfares or town and city centres can be classed as belonging to one side or the other of sectarian division in the North. As such the Socialist Party defends the right to march and protest on main roads and town centres. To oppose such a right is a reactionary position even if it is being used to oppose reactionary forces. The Socialist Party campaigned against the attempt by SF and the DUP to impose restrictions on the right to march and protest in the North.


This is actually a scurrilous comment. The Socialist Party has never had any affiliation with the PUP what so ever. The Socialist Party have debated against the PUP (specifically Billy Hutchinson), against Sinn Fein and against a variety of other republican groups. Republicans have actually invited Billy Hutchinson on protests that they have organised - something the Socialist Party have never done and would never contemplate.


It is absolutely 100% true that there are many working class Catholic communities where the 32CSM/RIRA has significantly more support than the Socialist Party - is this really a surprise - there are many Protestant working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than the 32CSM and much less than loyalist groups and similarly there are many Catholic working class communities where the Socialist Party has significantly more support than loyalists. It is a spurious argument. The question is this - what is the character of the support that the 32CSM/RIRA has in these communites. The Socialist Party would argue that far from being progressive (irrespective of the politics of individual Catholics) this support is sectarian in nature and as a result injurious to the interests of the working class as a whole.

One sphere of working class struggle where the Socialist Party has a significantly bigger based than either the 32CSM or the PUP is within the trade union movement. The Socialist Party has influence and a base far beyond what its size should merit within the trade union movement in the North. It has managed to build this base over an extended period by systematically adopting a working class approach to all iusses, campaigning for workers unity and opposing sectarianism.


The Socialist Party (and the Militant) have opposed the republican paramilitary campaign from the outset - not because we have some ideological opposition to using weapons - but because we believe that it is a fundementally flawed strategy based on individual terror (and this is the political term for the nature of the republican paramilitary campaign - not, as republicans always seem to perceive, a swipe at republicanism). The Socialist Party believes that it has not succeeded, it cannot succeed and it will always result in a split in republicanism and a compromise with Imperialism.


Absolutely - the root cause of all of these issues is British Imperialism.


Here we must disagree - any organisation that bases itself on one section of the working class is not progressive in any way.


Again - agree.


Glad you recognise it - but in my opinion the INLA/IRSP is still a very long way to where it can play a progressive role for the working class.

Your posts to long for me to reply to each point. It is full of sh1te too.
If you support the POWs you would attend protests supportimg them. I have yet to hear of yous doing so.
I have also yet to hear of yous attending protests for those interned prisioners. Why would you give the same rights to common criminal that the pows should have. The POWs are political prisioners and should be treated that way. Even the nazis gave british soldiers pow status.

All that crap about the 32s is redundent too as many of the pows have to connection to them.

Also if you oppose sectarian parades where you in ardoyne or newtonbutler supporting the local residents?

All that stuff about why you didnt support the armed resistance against imperialism is nonsense too.

On the IRSM they are a far more progressive organisation than the sp will every be and they are on the rise by the looks of it. Upa Irps.

[CommieTroll]

To many cowardly socialist groups in Ireland like a flag waving contest. At least the 32s have the balls to get out there and be active.

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?

[Irish Left]

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?

The omagh bomb. Your either about 10 or a loyalist if you bring that up. I wasnt aware the 32s planted it.

And whats the kind of the 32s. Are you shocked that they dont just wave flags and drool over the pathetic trade union leaders?

[CommieTroll]

The omagh bomb. Your either about 10 or a loyalist if you bring that up. I wasnt aware the 32s planted it.

And whats the kind of the 32s. Are you shocked that they dont just wave flags and drool over the pathetic trade union leaders?

Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

[Irish Left]

Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

I wont be explaining to you why posting about omagh was stupid as i think you already know that.
I dont support the armed struggle or the 32s but at least they do more than talk about revolutions and fights against imperialism in far off lands.
I am not a nationalist and my parents arnt socialist republicans so they forced nothing apon me!

I see you havnt enlightend me anymore on your accusitions against the 32s so i will assume it was just bs.

[Magdalen]

Is that all you can do? Someone disagrees with you so you verbally attack them? You remind me of RevLeftByBirth, posting mindless propaganda on this forum that achieves nothing. No, I'm not a loyalist but what you don't understand is that a lot of loyalists are proletarian too, but I wouldn't expect a sectarian bigot to think like that. You're probably a teenager playing provo because your parents forced those beliefs into you just like every other ''nationalist'' and ''loyalist'' in the north.

You're ignoring the fundamental distinction between the Loyalist working class and the Nationalist working class - that the Loyalist working class, because of its privilege relative to the Nationalist working class, is orientated around support for rightist Orange ideology and a continued British Imperialist presence in Ireland. Connolly referred to them as 'slaves in spirit because they have been reared up among a people whose conditions of servitude are more slavish than their own'. Nationalists aren't to blame for a lack of proletarian unity in the Six Counties - British Imperialism is, and unity can only develop once British Imperialism is vanquished from Ireland.

I also refer Jolly Red Giant to another quotation from the same article, that 'the historical backgrounds of the movement in England and Ireland are so essentially different that the Irish Socialist movement can only be truly served by a party indigenous to the soil'. Can he argue that organisations such as the SP and SWP in Ireland, which effectively operate as franchises of organisations across the water really fulfil that criteria? The CWI even operates a largely separate organisation with a separate website in the Six Counties.

[fionntan]

I've actually seen the 32CSM in action, I know the kind of them. They are nothing but a group of thugs. I suppose The Omagh Bomb really taught the Brits a lesson then?

so you know the kind of them??? With that statement i conclude that you dont actualy know any but you know that working class republican type that frightings the average rich kid at a demo. Those terrible lads who live in the tower blocks and were track suits but talk politics. Im not supprised you call people thugs educated working class youths must put the fear of god in you. And again the 32 CSM didnt and dont plant bombs.

[CommieTroll]

Even the point of ''Irish Nationalism'' is pathetic. A united working class of the UK & Ireland is a lot stronger than your Catholic dominated theocracy and that's the reason why Unionists don't want reunification and you morons can't see that. You guys will say anything for your precious ''anti-imperialism''. And fionntan, the 32CSM is the RIRA's political mouthpiece, nothing more. Yeah, they are also responsible for the Omagh bomb and you's can't dismiss it or say its stupid that I brought it up. You may want reunification with the south but we honestly don't want you, at this current moment in time it's impossible for reunification, you really think another 6 counties can be supported?