Maoist Third-Worldist Propaganda

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

That isn't self determination or countering imperialism, that is imperializing the world and then instituting mandatory communist agenda's to prevent self-determination.



Actually the Soviet Union was imperialist. Ironically, neoconservatism in America was birthed out of a rejection of Soviet imperialism in favor of Democratic imperialism. So this whole "fighting imperialism with imperialism" thing is actually what created this neoconservative revolution in the first world.



That doesn't make any sense. You are basically arguing that it isn't imperialistic because it is using imperialism to fight imperialism. It is still imperialistic.

I personally think the neoconservatives and the maoist third-worldists should go fight their imperialistic wars of aggression in another dimension, while the rest of us try to fight for peace. If you want to help the Third World, you will do it by opposing the neo-mercantilist economic policies of the First World. Not by creating an imperialistic war machine out of the impoverished Third World.

'That isn't self determination or countering imperialism, that is imperializing the world and then instituting mandatory communist agenda's to prevent self-determination.'
It isn't 'Imperializing' as it is a direct response to Imperialism.

An Outright Invasion against a Imperialist Nation by a Federation of Working Class Nations would in all fairness be not needed, as all it would take to completely bring an end to this would be an encirclement in which the First World Imperialist Nations would afterward fall due to them lacking the ability to expand capital through Imperialism, this would as well foster the conditions for a Revolutionary Situation in order to complete the World Wide Revolution.

'That doesn't make any sense. You are basically arguing that it isn't imperialistic because it is using imperialism to fight imperialism. It is still imperialistic. '

It is simply using the same tactics that Imperialism uses in order to dismantle Imperialism and Capitalism.

(Again however, I'm not a Maoist Third Worldist, nor am I a Third Worldist, this situation simply could come from any Workers Power strong enough to unite other Revolutionary Workers State in an alliance.)

[tbasherizer]

It doesn't want self-determination. If they wanted self-determination, they wouldn't oppose capitalism, they would just oppose imperialism. And we know they don't oppose imperialism, because it appears that their strategy to toppling the first world is imperialistic.

It's impossible to oppose only imperialism without opposing capitalism. Imperialism is defined by most people in this thread in terms of direction of net wealth transfer from country to country. It's in the best interest of a "First world capitalist" to get Chinese people to work in a lead plant rather than "First World" people, because of the precautions that he would have to pay for in the "First World" that he wouldn't have to in the "Third World". This best interest is directly dictated by the laws of the marketplace that you love so much. As a result, the capitalist uses whichever tools he has at his disposal to make the local "Third World" government okay with this, which could mean he sponsors it and makes it dependent on their cooperation, or it could mean that he uses his local state to exert pressure on it.

Maoist Third Worldists' strategy is nonsense, but it is not strictly imperialist by the above economic definition.

[ZombieRothbard]

It's impossible to oppose only imperialism without opposing capitalism.

I support capitalism (free markets), but not imperialism. In fact, imperialism is the enemy of free market capitalism. The third world has much to offer the international division of labor, but it is prevented from doing so by the bandit gangs known as states.

Imperialism is defined by most people in this thread in terms of direction of net wealth transfer from country to country. It's in the best interest of a "First world capitalist" to get Chinese people to work in a lead plant rather than "First World" people, because of the precautions that he would have to pay for in the "First World" that he wouldn't have to in the "Third World". This best interest is directly dictated by the laws of the marketplace that you love so much.

State mandated regulations on work environments is not a law of the marketplace, it is an unwarranted intervention. The outsourcing you are speaking of is caused by state intervention in the affairs of private industry.

As a result, the capitalist uses whichever tools he has at his disposal to make the local "Third World" government okay with this, which could mean he sponsors it and makes it dependent on their cooperation, or it could mean that he uses his local state to exert pressure on it.

I agree with this, but just because the capitalist uses the coercion of the state to get his way doesn't mean that capitalism is the cause of the problem. The state is clearly the problem.

[Struggle]

It is ironic Maoist-Third Worldists are being suppressed from Revleft based on misconceptions and misjudgements.

Although I am not a Maoist-Third Worldist, a lot of what they claim is certainly true. I disagree with some of the notions such as ‘exploiting countries’ verses ‘exploited countries’, but in actual fact, I think there is more reason to suppress the people who actually suppress the MTWists, than there is for suppressing the MTWists.

The fact Maoist-Third Worldists receive so much hostility based on misjudged or miss-guided views, shows how capable many people in the Communist are of ‘guiding the masses towards revolution’.

Check this video out for example. MTWists, fundamentally, are MTWists because they believe the most effective way to bring about Socialism, based on the material conditions of the world, is to struggle in those conditions which will help the global movement most for the establishment of Socialism.

http://vimeo.com/24752359

Unlike many others, I have taken the liberty of actually studying what I agree or disagree with. I critique MTWists, but no more than I critique many other branches of Communism.

I support an end to suppressing MTWists, and would sooner see the moderators who suppress them, suppressed themselves. Although, we all know that is not going to happen.

Forward with objective non-doctrine thought for the emancipation of the working class. Down with petty-squabbles and those in the Communist movement, who by their preaching of division; contribute to the continuation of the Capitalist system and therefore the deaths of billions.

[Drosophila]

The LLCO has "DONATE- PAYPAL/MASTERCARD/VISA"

Isn't that contributing more to capitalism than my calling their ideology retarded?

[Struggle]

The LLCO has "DONATE- PAYPAL/MASTERCARD/VISA"

Isn't that contributing more to capitalism than my calling their ideology retarded?

That does not help. The fact is, for the Communist movement to achieve anything; we need to compromise at something. It is impossible to avoid the Capitalist system, and sometimes, it is even helpful to exploit it to ones benefit.

[Tim Finnegan]

I agree with this, but just because the capitalist uses the coercion of the state to get his way doesn't mean that capitalism is the cause of the problem. The state is clearly the problem.

That's like saying "I don't mind hayfever, I just don't like sneezing"...

[DiaMat86]

Referring to the video:

There is absolutely no explanation of why the socialist revolutions of the 20th century were reversed.

[ZrianKobani]

Referring to the video:

There is absolutely no explanation of why the socialist revolutions of the 20th century were reversed.

Single-party states are designed to fail, all that's needed is time.

[DiaMat86]

How much plurality is required for success?

[ZrianKobani]

How much plurality is required for success?

Unlimited; if socialism is to be democratic, it has to act democratic. The majority of Marxist regimes have been one-party states and the ones that haven't have places severe limitations (see the DPRK) on the opposition parties.