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almost every point in this post could be just as easily be made into an attack on Anarchists in the west. change a few words and names. bada bing bada boom you are now critiquing anarkiddies.
FKA Vacant
"snook up behind him and took his koran, he said sumthin about burnin the koran. i was like DUDE YOU HAVE NO KORAN and ran off." - Jacob Isom, Amarillo Resident.
That's actually true, I mean I did say the "entire organized left." I don't think activism and organizing is totally pointless but I kind of agree with the leftcoms that if this doesn't emerge organically out of class struggles you will always end up with dysfunction, whether its mostly middle class kids calling themselves "anarchists", "MLs", or "Trotskyists".
It may be just down to personal experience in activism locally, which left a very bad taste in my mouth.
you are such a pinhead. the most sophisticated communists ive met didnt go to college. there is a strong tradition in the revolutionary working class for self education, no need to do the stupid anti intellectual posturing, stalin jr.lol "their anti-theoretical and anti-intellectual attitudes and overall lack of knowledge" damn too bad us proletarians dont have as much time to read as you do cause we working. I do try though
love to know how the correct pro-theoretical and pro-intellectual attitude and overall great amount of knowledge is doing with that whole revolution thing. if only you could have exposed _all_ the great revolutionaries of history with your superior knowledge. the masses would be greatful.
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
Where was the anti-intellectual posturing?
Self criticism....When I leave the neurosis of my boss often I let out aggression on the internet or read novels or plays or poetry rather than political theory because I feel I get enough political theory from the horrid reality confronting me. The fact is though that the fact that Maoists are not the most amazing well read tendency on this forum has to do with maybe the fact that most of us didnt go to university? Just maybe?
i think the reason why spawn of stalin became a stalinist bonehead is different than "the millions of proles and poor peasants" that tailed official communism. spawn of stalin is in canada, where official communism are sects. he had to do a conscious effort to like stalin and think that everything against stalin is a bourgeois lie. in countries where there is real official communism, official communism is just a faction of the boss class, and the dominant ideas are always the ones of the boss class. furthermore, western stalinists have absorbed more theory and abstractions in order to justify their dumb beliefs or whatever, while in the real world proles and peasants who are "stalinists" are more similar to average people who are democrats or republicans.
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
i bet that there are more college maoists in the west than college trotskyists, this is entirely anecdotal, but at least the trotskyists had some sort of industrial prescence, maoists had nil
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
i dont read any political theory either, i mostly read poetry and science shit. but to say that maoists are unsophisticated because they didnt go to "college" is just a lie, considering that some of the main maoist cadre and the nuclei of what became larger maoist parties were college educated. (the first generation of naxalites)
Formerly dada
[URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic
The first generation leadership of Naxalites, yes, but not the vast majority of Naxalites. And yes a lot of the leaderships by force of circumstance are college educated, but that is not the base of the movement. In the newly formed Maoist group I belong two only two people out of ten have been to university and both are immigrants with very crap jobs. Education offers people a lot, its not something that I dismiss, I wish I had more of it.
Are there though?
Most Maoists in the west are third world immigrants.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with me not being able to do anything, and I will happily discuss this in another topic or in private.
No I am not in Canada and yes I would appreciate it if you would try not to refer to me as a bonehead, especially not when talking about me to somebody. You can prove your point in any number of ways but I do not appreciate being called names. Thank you.
Yes I did make the conscious decision to like Stalin based on things I had read and learned about the Soviet Union and Marxism-Leninism, but I would not exactly call it an effort. However after years of thinking like an anarchist, I had to open my mind a little and, but I still wouldn't say I made any attempt to find reasons to like him. I also reject your assumption that I think everything against Stalin is a bourgeois lie, I accept some critiques of Stalin, he did some things wrong. But I have never and will never trust statistics from blatantly bourgeois sources.
I'm calling for a source on that, I'm around alot of immigrants due to my community in San Fransisco, and i've never once met any Maoist immigrants. Most immigrants are largely reactionary since they've seen what the shithole "Communist" regimes have done to their countries like China and Vietnam.
Most maoists are middle class white kids, the only ones i've ever met have been middle class white kids. The same kids with Che on their shirt.
I'm working class, moms an electrician and dad's a plumber. I take the bus to football practice at my public school every day.
I would argue that most third world immigrants who are leftist turn out to be Zapatist or Trotskyist, the majority of my small group is compromised of Mexican Americans.
What's a critique of Stalin that you accept?
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
I have experience and not a source. Most Maoists in the west as seen at May Day marches in London are from Turkey, Peru or otherwise third world nations, a lot keep their politics largely to themselves. Maoists are not that overly gone with Che so I dont know where you are coming from there...Also Maoist organization in the USA outside of the Black Nation barely exists so again what you say is weird.
Ok fair enough, you're talking about Europe and I'm talking about the U.S. different circumstances I suppose.
However, doesn't change the fact that most Marxist Leninists, Maoist third worldists, and che tee shirt communists, in my experience are middle class kids rebelling against authority who don't have the balls to be Blac Bloc anarchists.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
That wasn't the point. Having been a witness in two different unions as to what the Maoists were doing, it was just the opposite. Maoists went into the working class not to learn but, instantly and arrogantly, to lead. I saw this in a white collar and a blue collar union, where Maoists (Progressive Labor at the time), were constantly wavering between "giving the line" to the workers and "rapping" with them.
In the meantime, they were completely unable to develop any kind of meaningful program or ongoing organizations. It was pathetic.
RED DAVE
Most Maoists in the United States are Black Nation revolutionary seperatists and not trendy lefties.
LOL...How have Trots worked out the Trade Unions in the United States?
Do Trots having anything approaching the League of Revolutionary Black Workers that they can show us?
The mistrust/hatred of MLs among anarchists and other non-ML communists is rooted in a long history of betrayal of the working class by various ML parties so as to sustain their own power. From the Red Army's slaughter of workers seeking autonomy and self-determination at Kronstadt to the Soviet Union's total betrayal of the Spanish working class resulting in Franco's rise to power, ML parties have time and time again fought against legitimate revolutionary forces as a means to secure their own power. Anarchists see MLs as a threat to a workers revolution because we recognize the blatant falsehood that is the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" and recognize the impossibility of creating a stateless society through gaining control of the state.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
The IS organized groups in Teamster and Auto that still exist today. I was part of that effort.
The, LRB, which I worked with, unfortunately did not take root, partially because it was destroyed by the pigs.
Learn your history before you run your mouth.
RED DAVE
One day I hope there will be no more threads like this. They never lead to any constructive discussion. It's sectarian shitfest from page one.
the trotskyist who's the de facto leader of my group is on the San Fransisco board of labor.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
