Opinions on the Confederate flag?

[ImStalinist]

Hate it, tolerate it, love it?

[Book O'Dead]

Um, it's just a flag, man.

[ImStalinist]

Um, it's just a flag, man.

True that. However, the opinions on it are mixed on the opinions on the C. S. A.

[ZrianKobani]

I'm a country boy at heart so I love it in the sense that I honor the idea of secession and the idea that the Confederates were trying to restore the ideals of the American Revolution. That said, I understand why some people jump on it's head and I hate that it's become so associated with the Klan.

[graymouser]

It's the flag of slavery. Confederate flags should not be publicly displayed, unless it is a Civil War reenactment or the flag is being burned as a symbol of shame.

[Book O'Dead]

True that. However, the opinions on it are mixed on the opinions on the C. S. A.

Yeah, and whatever those "opinions" may be, they're about 150 years too late and out of date.

The confederate states wanted to preserve and extend chattel slavery over the objections of many in the North. They overreacted when Lincoln was elected president, pushed the issue, brought it to a head, forced a civil war, lost and (thankfully) brought about the end of the very institution they sough of protect. End of story.

The Confederate flag is simply a physical remnant of past history and means absolutely nothing to most United Staters.

Those few who hang on to it are mostly Southern and Midwestern rednecks who use it to signal each other that they hate and fear African Americans and wish for the return of the "simpler days" when it was possible to legally subjugate and exploit others whose only fault (if such a thing can be faulted) is that they were born black.

[Revolution starts with U]

Fuck your "rebel" flag.

And no, the confederacy was not trying to restore the ideals of the revolution. That's pure post-hoc revisionism.

[Book O'Dead]

I'm a country boy at heart so I love it in the sense that I honor the idea of secession and the idea that the Confederates were trying to restore the ideals of the American Revolution. That said, I understand why some people jump on it's head and I hate that it's become so associated with the Klan.

That's what the Southern slave-holders and their supporters claimed. The reality, however, was another; They wanted to break up the Union (something the founders of the U.S. fought a revolutionary war to create) in order to preserve an institution that went diametrically counter to the ideal embodied in the Declaration of Independence: "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL".

Secession from the UNION was and is a reactionary cause, not an ideal of the American revolution.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

It's a flag that represents a slave-holders rebellion, fucking burn it. Today it's just used as a symbol of hate, I know people here in California that fly that shit and have it tatted on them even though they have never been to the South.

[ZrianKobani]

Those few who hang on to it are mostly Southern and Midwestern rednecks who use it to signal each other that they hate and fear African Americans and wish for the return of the "simpler days" when it was possible to legally subjugate and exploit others whose only fault (if such a thing can be faulted) is that they were born black.

On behalf of us all, thank you for touring the South and Mid-West and taking the time to seek out every individual who owns a rebel flag, getting to know them so you know their politics and reasoning, and reporting back to us.

For real though; you're free to hate the flag as much as I am to love it but that's no excuse to generalize and smear people. I know both sides of the issue and whatever the feelings about it, attacking people like that is unjustified.

[Ocean Seal]

It represents a history of segregation, sharecropping, and slavery. It's completely reactionary and saying that it is history should not excuse those who bear it from responsibility. Often it is associated with supporting the arch-right position of States rights which should more clearly be stated as a state's right to defy the national government and stop integration in the schools, or in public life.

[Tim Finnegan]

I'm going to be a bit contentious here and say that I do, to a certain extent, sympathising with the use of the flag as a symbol of Southern regional and cultural identity. However, I think that it goes without saying that the flag in question is a inarguably godawful choice for that purpose, given not only its historically unsavoury associations, to put it lightly- and unlike, say, the Union flag, those aren't accumulated associations, but innate ones- but in that it symbolically excludes non-white (and arguably, non-Anglo) residents of the region from membership in that identity. I think that there would be some value in designing and popularising a new regional flag with an inclusive character, perhaps as part of broader program to publicly reclaim a Southern regional identity from the narrow, reactionary politics with which it is associated outside of the region. (It could even be argued that the saltire might be retained as a symbol of the Anglo-Celtic cultural influence on the region, if balanced with some symbolism asserting the equally significant African-American influence- perhaps a saltire using elements of the pan-African colours?- although that's obviously a choice that would have to be left to the inhabitants of the region. I'm probably just a little biased towards saltires, for obvious reasons. )

Do any Southern posters have any reactions to that suggestion?

Um, it's just a flag, man.

On behalf of vexillology enthusiasts everywhere, let me just say "".

[Triple A]

What rednecks look up to as something glorious and to be proud off was actualy an act of treason by the laws of US.

And the heritage not hate argument makes no sense when the heritage is hate.

[Triple A]

Um, it's just a flag, man.

So is the nazi flag.
How about what is stands for?


The flag looks good aesthetically btw.

[Book O'Dead]

On behalf of us all, thank you for touring the South and Mid-West and taking the time to seek out every individual who owns a rebel flag, getting to know them so you know their politics and reasoning, and reporting back to us.

This is what I wrote: "Those few who hang on to it are mostly Southern and Midwestern rednecks..." "Mostly" being an admission that there might be some (like yourself, maybe) who cling to it because they have no real understanding of its historic significance.

For real though; you're free to hate the flag as much as I am to love it but that's no excuse to generalize and smear people. I know both sides of the issue and whatever the feelings about it, attacking people like that is unjustified.

Racist are not people in the Darwinian sense, my friend.

Seriously, I don't really give a damn about the confederate flag or any other flag. I am a worker, a socialist and an internationalist. And as such I have no country and no flag unless it is the RED FLAG of a revolutionary working class, united to overthrow capitalism and the vampires who profit from it.

Most likely there is no real difference between you and me except I understand the historical and modern-day significance of he Confederate flag whereas you don't.

[Kamos]

What do you think about Germans waving swastika flags? There, you have your answer. The flag is reactionary, and should never be seen again.

I'm going to be a bit contentious here and say that I do, to a limited extent, sympathising with the use of the flag as a symbol of Southern regional and cultural identity.

Again, what would you think about a German waving a swastika, saying that he's expressing his cultural identity with it? You might say that the Confederate flag is not like the Nazi flag, but it is. It represents the same evil in a different color (literally), and the only difference is that for some reason, it isn't universally despised like the swastika.

EDIT: To the before-last option:

[ZrianKobani]

Secession from the UNION was and is a reactionary cause, not an ideal of the American revolution.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government."

[Ocean Seal]

Secession from the UNION was and is a reactionary cause, not an ideal of the American revolution.

And further it shouldn't mater if it was an ideal of the revolution. Because so was neo-liberal capitalism and the right to own people as slaves. So I say many of the ideals of the American revolution were reactionary even for their time.

[ZrianKobani]

What rednecks look up to as something glorious and to be proud off was actualy an act of treason by the laws of US.

If you haven't noticed, we're all revolutionaries here. We're in the business of treason.

[hatzel]

I'll just let all you guys know that I'll be voting "War sucks, pacifism and dipmolcy [sic] FTW!", because that's what I usually reply when people ask me what I think about a flag, or anything else, for that matter...

Mother K: would you like a cup of tea, son?
Rabbi K: WAR SUCKS!!!