Anti-fascists paintbomb fascist pub in Brighton.

[Sasha]

An simple look at the history of British anti-fascism shows that "squadism" had an way more significant impact than anything the swp/ANL did post expulsion (lets not forget who created those "squads" to begin with) waving lollipops and calling on the disenfranchised white working-class to vote labor has been only counterproductive.
Seriously, go read "beating the fascists", it has more classanalysis in one page than an years worth of socialist worker.

[Ravachol]

Wow. All antifascist actions (legit and 'so called') have got to have at their very basis a class understanding of the issue and posess a stragegy of awareness and community-building within the larger class itself. Squadism does not work as a long-term strategy.

Yeah, because shouting 'nazi scum off our streets!' every now and then and touring together with some Labour party fuckhead in a 'Hope, not hate!' tourbus convincing people to 'VOTE LABOUR AGAINST THE NAZI BNP LOLZ!' is really an expression of working class power.. Not to mention inviting tory MPs now and then to speak out against fascism to build a 'broad anti-fascist alliance' and what not...

Denouncing any militant action as 'squadism' and supposing it somehow excludes broader, class-based action is just another rethorical trick of leftist bureaucrats trying to monopolize a struggle in order to turn it into a party-recruiting ground.

[Sasha]

Not to mention pretty ironic considering that the expulsion of the squads led to the last significant working-class membership of the swp leaving.
You can say what you want about RedAction but in the field of an actual understanding of the white workingclass they had a lot more right to speak than any SwP hack.

[Olentzero]

Is that the best you idiots can do to defend squadism? Start another SWP pile-on?

[Ravachol]

Is that the best you idiots can do to defend squadism? Start another SWP pile-on?

Surely this is the greatest of responses!

[Olentzero]

Well, I mean, if there's some underlying political or tactical philosophy that justifies forming a squad and paintbombing a pub besides the weaksauce arguments presented here, it would behoove the defenders to use it instead of simply telling the SWP how much they think it sucks. Really, is it that hard to see which approach has the greater potential for productive discussion? That is, assuming you guys actually have something along those lines. Which, I strongly suspect, you don't.

[An archist]

Well, I mean, if there's some underlying political or tactical philosophy that justifies forming a squad and paintbombing a pub besides the weaksauce arguments presented here, it would behoove the defenders to use it instead of simply telling the SWP how much they think it sucks. Really, is it that hard to see which approach has the greater potential for productive discussion? That is, assuming you guys actually have something along those lines. Which, I strongly suspect, you don't.

A couple of years ago, people in Leuven (my hometown) started a small-scale campaign against a bar that allowed a fascist student group to hold their meetings in the room above the bar.
Posters were put up, with a picture of the bar and a big swastika over it and a small description of the problem.
The bar suffered some small acts of vandalism, like graffiti and stickers on the windows.

And right now, the fascists aren't welcome there anymore.

So, I think we can say, these tactics can definitely work.

[Olentzero]

Ah, but that wasn't just a paintbombing like the OP described; in fact there doesn't seem to have been anything like the paintbombing involved. There was a campaign around it - which others in this thread have agreed would have been good for Brighton. The criticism leveled here, as I understand it, is that squad tactics alone don't work, since they don't reach out to the community like even the posters in Leuven attempted to do.

Much better response, however. Thank you.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Well, I mean, if there's some underlying political or tactical philosophy that justifies forming a squad and paintbombing a pub besides the weaksauce arguments presented here, it would behoove the defenders to use it instead of simply telling the SWP how much they think it sucks. Really, is it that hard to see which approach has the greater potential for productive discussion? That is, assuming you guys actually have something along those lines. Which, I strongly suspect, you don't.

yawn...

[Anarchist Skinhead]

And to finish this discussion Olentzero- I am pretty sure that nobody involved in militant anti-fascism in the Brighton area does actually give a flying fuck what you got to say about that action and anything else here and whether you "approve" or not.

End of story.

[RedSunRising]

Is that the best you idiots can do to defend squadism? Start another SWP pile-on?

Define defending "squadism"? Fascism has a physical agenda that has to be confronted physically, it also has a political one that has to be fought politically, Red Action and AFA in its hey day were very concerned with fighting fascism politically in a way that most of the left were not, the UAF/SWP does not fight fascism politically rather it appeals to liberal sentiments rather than giving class based answers to the white working class alienation that fascists often parasite of. Things are not necesscarily either/or they can also be both/and.

[Sasha]

its even essential to do both, i, together with others, just managed too stop an david irving speech. you know what was the stated reason? not his despicable holocaust denial but the threat of public disturbance.
you think that happened if the IS called for an picket instead of AFA for an physical blockade?

[RedSunRising]

its even essential to do both

There is also the question of how effective the political work of the UAF is seeing as it is largely based around a bourgeois liberal persecptive as opposed to a class one.

[Olentzero]

the UAF/SWP does not fight fascism politically rather it appeals to liberal sentiments rather than giving class based answers to the white working class alienation that fascists often parasite of.

Seeing as how you justifiably got called on your completely inaccurate assessment of the participants in Slutwalk, I'm gonna have to ask you to cite concrete examples here. As far as I'm concerned your political analyses right now aren't worth the pixels my screen uses to show them to me.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

excellent, I was really getting bored of reading your "wise" comments .

[hail_to_che69]

wow good on em, we cant let the facist plauge spread

[RedSunRising]

Seeing as how you justifiably got called on your completely inaccurate assessment of the participants in Slutwalk, I'm gonna have to ask you to cite concrete examples here. As far as I'm concerned your political analyses right now aren't worth the pixels my screen uses to show them to me.

Oh go over their silly website.... http://uaf.org.uk/

Anyway I wasnt saying anything much different about them Ravachol here.

[Sam_b]

eah, because shouting 'nazi scum off our streets!' every now and then and touring together with some Labour party fuckhead in a 'Hope, not hate!' tourbus convincing people to 'VOTE LABOUR AGAINST THE NAZI BNP LOLZ!' is really an expression of working class power..

You'll get a prize if you can point out where I said that. This right here is the fundamentals of the situation and the categorical error being made by mainly the british Antifascist left right now: that its a choice between one or another of these things. There appears to be no more reading of stategic analysis these days.

Not to mention pretty ironic considering that the expulsion of the squads led to the last significant working-class membership of the swp leaving

Evidence?

I am pretty sure that nobody involved in militant anti-fascism in the Brighton area does actually give a flying fuck what you got to say about that action and anything else here and whether you "approve" or not.

So in short you're now accusing the 'militant anti-fascists' in Brighton of both being sectarian and inflexible?

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Did somebody fart? I swear I heard something..

[Olentzero]

Oh go over their silly website.... http://uaf.org.uk/

I did, looked around a bit. Anything in particular you feel needs pointing out?