A thought - Violent Antifa Action as potentially empowering to fascism

[agnixie]

I've been thinking a bit about this of late, and about the reaction some people, especially those more on the right, seem to have to agressive antifa actions.

I'm excluding self-defence and reactions to armed provocation, as happens quite a lot (so yes, my title is more provocative than intended), from this category of actions. My reaction is to attacks directly on the few protests that remain non-violent.

Considering the german parallels (they're easy, after all this is one of the few templates we do have of a fascist takeover, along with latin Europe, Greece and some arab countries), I was reading a Tulchovsky piece and I'm getting nagging thoughts. The Freikorps that became the SA were involved in street fights for much of the 1928-1932 period, except in many cases these fights were initiated by KPD and SPD members along with german anarchists, and during this period the NSDAP share of the vote kept rising constantly. And the left largely lost both in the streets and the polls. Some seem to have considered this a factor in the rise of nazism, as it gave the petty bourgeoisie and some workers the impression that a) society was falling apart, that b) what was making it fall apart was left-wing assaults on it (made worse, probably, by the stab-in-the-back mythology cultivated by the right) and that c) the nazis were offering the vision that would save society from said violence/falling apart. By being white knights, basically.

In short, I get the slight feeling that it might be counterproductive and playing right in the hands of all these wannabe SA types. Thoughts? Counter Opinions? Am I completely insane and letting anxiety do the speaking? Just wondering...

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I'm not a history buff but I'm pretty sure the Fascists were the ones which originally started the violence on the first place,so everything else after that could be considered fair game for the leftists.

As for modern day...I dunno,it's not like there are street battles or anything.

[Sasha]

yes, i'm afraid your wrong and letting yourself sadly being caught by the same false reasoning as is dominant on a big part of the left.
first of all, no platform means no platform, everywhere fascist are allowed to organize, socialize, have concerts, walk demonstrations etc etc they will grow.
where ever they grow they feel comfertable and they grow more brazen and will more sooner than later attack leftists, preferably those they are not afraid for, i.e. those who oppose militant anti-fascism.
so militant anti-fascism is first and foremost self defense.
secondly, we as revolutionaries can not and should not rely on the police to stop the fascists. if you can stop an nazi march by an mass blockade without landing an punch, of course that is preferable but i'm afraid that sometimes it comes down to an well planned ambush to stop the nazi's from spreading their pest.
thirdly, anti-fascism as you propose caters to the midle class. if you want to stop fascism, let alone if you harbor any revolutionary aspirations you are going to need the white working class. which means fighting the fash tooth and nail for their homeland, their natural breeding ground of the estates and workingclass neighborhoods, for each potential nazi recruit.
fourthly, its not and if that then not that. as an militant anti-fascist all options should be on the table, what will yield the most effective opportune result is what decides which "weapon" you deploy, in my 15 years in militant anti-fascism 99% of my activities have been organizing demo's, community work, leafleting, press-work, meetings, speeches etc etc the punch up sometimes needs to happen but its not all we do.

here are some good vids to watch:

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

if you want to learn more i advise you to get your hands on the following books for starters:

http://www.schnews.org.uk/book-reviews/the-43-group.htm
http://beatingthefascists.org/
http://libcom.org/library/bash-the-f...ions-1984-1993 (book written by an actual revleft member, completely online)

[agnixie]

snip

Thanks, I admit that knowing more about fascist theory than the opposition lends me to being pretty fatalistic about it, so I appreciate the watching/reading.

[Sasha]

And an important thing I forgot, among others, is that militant anti-fascism in fact is the essential answer to the fash posing as SA aryan warrior hardmen. An physical humiliation shatters the top dog myth they like to cultivate and which is in big part their biggest appeal. Which is what so dangerous of the "only defense" line dictated by the trotskist and social-dem left, it leaves the fash room to plan the confrontations so they are victories 99% of the time which only strengthen them.
Again, the best defence is the offence and people like the SWP should read some actual trotsky for an change, his "fascism, what it is and how to fight it" (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...4/1944-fas.htm) seems very conveniently forgotten by these otherwise often fanatic trotsky thumpers.

[RedRaptor]

If you dont get vilent then theyll just continue. Everytime me and my friends start throwing punches those cowards scramble. THey still come back but they always have less numbers.