Book Animal Farm

[tradeunionsupporter]

Thanks for all your answers.

[Rafiq]

If anything good old Stalin and his Soviets fucked up the Spanish Civil War too.

True, but that doesn't excuse Orwell's traiterous behavior:

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/art...l-informer.htm

[ComradeMan]

True, but that doesn't excuse Orwell's traiterous behavior:

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/art...l-informer.htm

Against whom? Stalin and the Soviets who he hated.

[Rafiq]

No.... Against British communists who probably didn't all have affiliation with Stalin.

[ComradeMan]

No.... Against British communists who probably didn't all have affiliation with Stalin.

"Probably" did or didn't? What facts do you have? In the article itself it states that he was merely listing them as unsuitable for counter-intelligence operations and that he considered the Communist Party a "totalitarian menace". This is of course the same Communist Party in Britain that had backed conservatives against indepedent labour candidates and attacked strikers as Trotskyists. If I am not mistaken Harry Pollit was a pro-Stalin and pro-Soviet all of his life, the USSR named a ship after him.

[Tim Finnegan]

True, but that doesn't excuse Orwell's traiterous behavior:

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/art...l-informer.htm

Eh, the Communist Party of Great Britain had been firmly to the right of the international communist movement since its inception, and by that point had shifted rather permanently into the Labour-tailing reformism that would last until its ignoble demise. The CPGB sold out long the working class long before Orwell sold out the CPGB. A dick move, perhaps, but not exactly high treason.

No.... Against British communists who probably didn't all have affiliation with Stalin.

Actually, Stalin took an active interest in the British communist party, given that it comprised his leading agent in one of the world's foremost capitalist powers, and it's leaders often had his ear on matters of international significance. It may not have warranted quite the same attention as the mass parties of Italy, Germany and France, but he never for a moment took his eyes off it, as illustrated by his personal reviewing and endorsing of their notorious 1951 programme Britain's Road to Socialism.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I bring up the Book because Capitalists use Animal Farm to say that the Soviet Union had no real equality that the Government Leaders had all the wealth and were wealthy or rich is this a myth ?

[dodger]

I'm in agreement with Bud Struggle, and the posters who refuted the claim that Orwell was anti-communist. His books were a guidance for future commys so we don't make the same mistakes that they did in the past. Funnily enough M-Ls and Capitalists have the same WRONG assessments of the books, in that the novels and the autobiography were anti-socialist. I wish I could meet George orwell, I also wish he didn't die as young as he did.

Be careful what you wish for......Dear Syd....

ISAAC DEUTSCHER .....was on the list.....as was beloved Charlie Chaplin....

With the descriptive JEW! Others were also fingered as homosexual(a prison offence )at the time.....also open to blackmail....

Interestingly dear dear Charlie never denied being Jewish, indeed he was NOT. Out of respect for his half brother(who was Jewish) he kept silent on the matter.....kept his integrity too! Unlike ORWELL!

[Doflamingo]

Reading this thread reminds me of the time I read Animal Farm in my English class.

A question appeared on a paper that we had received that asked the question, "what would Orwell's opinion about capitalism be?" or something along those lines. I argued that Orwell is an anti-capitalist and would find it to be a system that exploits the proletariat. My teacher argued that he would support capitalism because it is described as being a "free market" and Orwell was for "freedom". I argued that he was a communist (Trotskyist), and she still disagreed.

Anyways, I found Animal Farm to be a good tale and a great argument against state-capitalism.

[Revolution starts with U]

I bring up the Book because Capitalists use Animal Farm to say that the Soviet Union had no real equality that the Government Leaders had all the wealth and were wealthy or rich is this a myth ?

No. The USSR was in fact capitalist.

[Brosip Tito]

Of course, Orwell had never set foot in the USSR, before or after he wrote his books.

Because you HAVE to physically visit a place to know what your talking about.

Animal Farm was an allegory to the bolshevik revolution and Stalin's reign. It was, in my opinion, an accurate allegory.

1984 is a critique of totalitarianism, be it Stalinism, or Nazism. Orwell did a good job of that as well.

[RGacky3]

1984 is increasingly reminding me more and more of the United states over the last 10 or so years.

[Jason]

Notice that in the movie "1984" everything looks gloomy. Just like I was saying on the thread about "Is Capitalism more Colorful?" All portrayals of a gloomy Communist world are propoganda. But, well, England is foggy anyways (which on the movie "1984" that was set for the future Communist state).

http://www.prisoncensorship.info/arc...edstar265.html

I am with the "critics" on this one.

Orwell may or may not have "considered himself" a "democratic socialist"...people can consider themselves lots of things.

But Animal Farm and 1984 are both very poorly written and politically reactionary.

In Animal Farm the animals allow a new ruling class (pigs) to "take over" without any resistance. The obvious implication is that any attempt by humans to establish an egalitarian social order is "doomed to fail".

In 1984, the "proles" are a bunch of "louts" capable of riot but never of revolution.

Both books imply that as bad as things are now, any attempt to significantly change them "will only make things even worse".

That's reactionary...and is very much the reason why those two books began to be taught in high schools in the McCarthy era and continue to the present day.

You see, if Orwell had merely wished to "attack Stalin", there were many ways he could have done that. His real target was revolution itself.

Before those two books, he was a pretty decent writer; then he decided to become a capitalist hack.

Has he lived a few years longer, I think he would have written one of those nauseating "I choose the West" (capitalism) pieces that polluted the public discourse in the 1950s.

As to their "literary" merits, I think his characters were "cardboard" and his plotting contrived and simplistic. They're most suitable for episodes in "Godless Commies" (see the comic book thread in History).

[YugoslavSocialist]

Of course, Orwell had never set foot in the USSR, before or after he wrote his books.

You obviously never read any of his books have you.

[Jason]

1984 was such anti-communist propoganda that it even suggested Communists wanted to eliminate the "orgasm".

[Red Banana]

1984 was such anti-communist propoganda that it even suggested Communists wanted to eliminate the "orgasm". The thought of a society that boring would surely discourage revolution.

1984 was an anti-State Capitalist book. I keep on seeing you say things like 'communist state' and insisting that State Capitalism was 'communism' which makes me seriously question your understanding of a future communist society.

[Geiseric]

I know I already posted a thread about the Book Animal Farm by George Orwell but Capitalists say Socialism won't work because the Leaders of the Socialist Government would keep all the money for themselves what do you say to this claim is it flawed ?

Animal Farm

by George Orwell

http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/reviews/...imal-farm.html

That's not what george orwell was talking about, how about you, along with my lying, bastard high school teachers read what orwell said instead of making up conclusions to fit the needs of the bourgeois agenda of cultural hegemony? Orwell was a socialist himself, and had beef with Stalinism because they murdered his buddies during the spanish civil war, whom were also revolutionary.

[Geiseric]

No.... Against British communists who probably didn't all have affiliation with Stalin.

The british communists were the 1st ones who were staunchly supporting UK intervention in the imperialist war. They weren't purged so obviously they had affiliation with stalin.

[Jason]

1984 was an anti-State Capitalist book. I keep on seeing you say things like 'communist state' and insisting that State Capitalism was 'communism' which makes me seriously question your understanding of a future communist society.

The book was anti-revolution, or at least it was preceived to be that way by most of the western public, even if Orwell didn't intent it.

[Red Banana]

A worker for a state propaganda industry becomes disillusioned with State Capitalsim and runs off to live in the prole section with his like minded lover, then seeks to assist a feared revolutionary organization in abolishing the system that oppresses him and most of the rest of society? Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.