Book Animal Farm

[Geiseric]

I'm in agreement with Bud Struggle, and the posters who refuted the claim that Orwell was anti-communist. His books were a guidance for future commys so we don't make the same mistakes that they did in the past. Funnily enough M-Ls and Capitalists have the same WRONG assessments of the books, in that the novels and the autobiography were anti-socialist. I wish I could meet George orwell, I also wish he didn't die as young as he did.

[ComradeMan]

In Homage to Catalonia he didn't seem to come to think too highly of the soviet backed communists, as I recall- it's a long time since I read it, but he seems to be far more sympathetic to the anarchists in the later stages. I think I'll read this book again.

[Rooster]

Orwell was a trotskyist

Orwell wasn't a Trotskyist. He thought Trotskyism was as bad as Stalinism. Orwell did not write a scathing critique of communism. Unless of course you equate communism with that mess that Stalin presided over. His books were a critique of society in general and authoritarianism in particular.

[Luc]

I believe Orwell was in the POUM and some people call them Trotskyist (if I remeber correctly) but they are just Marxist (or just Communist).

Maybe that is why some people think he is a Trotskyist.

[ComradeMan]

I believe Orwell was in the POUM and some people call them Trotskyist (if I remeber correctly) but they are just Marxist (or just Communist).

Maybe that is why some people think he is a Trotskyist.

Orwell was involved with the POUM and fought with them during the Spanish Civil War. The POUM was a merger of Trotskyists and the Barcelona Workers and Peasants Bloc- apparently Trotsky himself did not really approve of this. This movement was not pro-Soviet and eventually outgrew the "official" Spanish Communist Party. It was suppressed in the end and Andreu Nin Perez was captured, tortured and killed by the Soviet NKVD operating in Spain.

I don't know if this is accurate or not but I get the feeling that Orwell's disdain for Stalinism and the Soviets may have well stemmed from his experience in Spain and as is alluded to in Homage to Catalonia.

I really recommend you guys read Homage to Catalonia. Everyone knows Animal Farm and 1984 and it seems this work is often forgotten but it does give a great insight into Orwell the man- writing from his own first hand experience and perspective.

[Luc]

Orwell was involved with the POUM and fought with them during the Spanish Civil War. The POUM was a merger of Trotskyists and the Barcelona Workers and Peasants Bloc- apparently Trotsky himself did not really approve of this. This movement was not pro-Soviet and eventually outgrew the "official" Spanish Communist Party. It was suppressed in the end and Andreu Nin Perez was captured, tortured and killed by the Soviet NKVD operating in Spain.

I don't know if this is accurate or not but I get the feeling that Orwell's disdain for Stalinism and the Soviets may have well stemmed from his experience in Spain and as is alluded to in Homage to Catalonia.

I really recommend you guys read Homage to Catalonia. Everyone knows Animal Farm and 1984 and it seems this work is often forgotten but it does give a great insight into Orwell the man- writing from his own first hand experience and perspective.

I see, to be honest I just read the first paragraph of the spanish civil section of his wikipedia page.

I agree, the book looks good (haven't read yet, been meaning to)
here is a link for full book (for those who ahven't read it or would like to):
http://www.george-orwell.org/Homage_...nia/index.html

[Bud Struggle]

'Italiano?'

[ComradeMan]

'Italiano?'

Non ho trovato una versione in lingua italiana online.

[Rafiq]

The book can be interpreted in different ways.

For example, one could argue that Napoleon harvested power because the animal revolution couldn't spread to neighboring farms..

I heard somewhere it had AntiSemitic undertones, notably that all of the revolutionaries were pigs, Karl Marx as well..

[ComradeMan]

The book can be interpreted in different ways.

For example, one could argue that Napoleon harvested power because the animal revolution couldn't spread to neighboring farms..

But that would not really tally with Napoleonic history or do you mean the character?

I heard somewhere it had AntiSemitic undertones, notably that all of the revolutionaries were pigs, Karl Marx as well..

I don't buy that. George Orwell also wrote on anti-semitism

http://www.george-orwell.org/AntiSem...Britian/0.html

He wasn't PC though and in Down and Out in London and Paris there are some comments he makes that would not be acceptable today although I don't think it's evidence of anti-semitism per se. Che Guevara's comments on black people are also cited as being evidence of racism- but is this borne out by later fact? Karl Marx himself was pretty damn anti-semitic though in his writings but this could be interpreted as pretty much typical of his age anyway.

Edit- found this- can't vouch for the source but it discusses it.
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Temp...ll-MartinW.htm

[Bud Struggle]

The book can be interpreted in different ways.

For example, one could argue that Napoleon harvested power because the animal revolution couldn't spread to neighboring farms..

I heard somewhere it had AntiSemitic undertones, notably that all of the revolutionaries were pigs, Karl Marx as well..

It's a book about how Communism sucks. And it's Communism NOT the book that has to redeem itself.

[Tim Finnegan]

Of course, Orwell had never set foot in the USSR, before or after he wrote his books.

And you never set foot in Nazi Germany, ergo, any criticisms you may have of it are spurious by definition.

[Rafiq]

It's a book about how Communism sucks. And it's Communism NOT the book that has to redeem itself.

No, it's not.

[ComradeMan]

No, it's not.

He's playing devil's advocate with you.

It's a book about totalitarianism and authoritarianism hijack "revolutions" and become as bad, if not worse, than that which they replaced- again, look to Homage to Catalonia for the roots of this.

[Bud Struggle]

No, it's not.

Maybe that's not why it was written--but it is now.

The past exists. It can't be ignored. It has to be deal with. Revolutions are going on all over the Middle east--anyone mention Communism? No. It's dead. Revolutionaries, REAL REVOLUTIONARIES are overthrowing countries and Marxism, Communism, aren't even a passing though in their minds. It dosen't exist. Any Leftist, Anarchist, Communist militias help Libya like they helped Spain in the Spanish Civil War? Nope--just NATO.

The Libyian Revolution was all about NATO.

Even the Revolution as been corpritized.

[Dave B]

Animal farm was a loose allegory for the Russian revolution with ‘snowball’ who is dealt with some what sympathetically being Trotsky and Napoleon being Stalin.

Following on from Trot theory.

Leon Trotsky The Workers’ State, Thermidor and Bonapartism (February 1935)



http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...-therm-bon.htm

the pigs were the clever animals, intelligentsia and Bolsheviks

the Wikipedia entry is OK on it I think as a first stop.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

1984 follows along in the same track with allegorical references to actual historical events under Stalinism

[Rooster]

Maybe that's now why it was written--but it is now.

How can it be now if it wasn't before?

[Bud Struggle]

How can it be now if it wasn't before?

Spoken like a true Marxist.

Views change, Perspectives change.

[Rooster]

Views change, Perspectives change.

Animal Farm isn't some puzzle without a solution.

[Bud Struggle]

Animal Farm isn't some puzzle without a solution.

No, the Capitalist solved the problem. Every High School in America teached Animal Farm.

So what's your issue?