ELF

[Chancho]

The Earth Liberation Front - so called 'eco-terrorists' - regarded by the FBI as America's no. 1 domestic terrorist threat up until September 11. What do you people think of them, know about them etc?

PS - so sorry about the double thread posting - I swear I didn't hit 'submit' twice, nor the refresh button ... grrrrrr...



(Edited by Chancho at 6:38 am on Oct. 11, 2001)

[very]

From what I know about ELF - which isn't very much - is that they aren't very hierarchial and aren't very centralized as well. They claim responsibility for fires set in Colorado, sabotage of various genetic engineering projects, and I'm not sure if it was them or the ALF who was responsible for a truck-bomb in I believe it was Arizona.

I believe in ecological causes; however, they don't commend the same respect as other ecological groups, as they are faceless and never speak out, and i wonder if they are just a splinter group from another ecological group.

[RedCeltic]

They have burned down a few construction projects here on Long Island. Spraypainted some houses... sabatoged some work trucks... I have a bit of a biast opinion on this considering I'm a plumber... but I don't think they are huring any capitalists... just subcontracters who are typicly workers.

[Drifter]

i think that the concept is brilliant, they have no fixed group, no membership, leaders anything like that, its just a cause, and people participate as they want to, the internet makes it more effective by spreading things around.
this all means that you can't actually do much to them, its like punching fog.
personally (don't ban me please) i think that this is good because people are doing ssomething,, the world is being destroyed by greedy thoughttless people, but noone, for all their talk, actually gets off their arse and does something.

[Drifter]

i should point out the major downsides to this,, but i'm tired.

[RedCeltic]

I can’t agree more with their cause… however I only question if the methods they use will truly affect the construction industry or simply those of us who slave in it. If their tactics truly put a cap on the building of new homes than it’s a worthwhile cause. However if destroying construction materials and vehicles that are owned by us workers and not the companies themselves only serves to hurt us and not the industry I feel it’s nothing but reckless vandalism. I’m not to fond of construction work anyway which is why I’m trying to get of the field now while I’m young.

In the past few years we have seen a boom in new construction on Long Island. The rich are moving out to Long Island in droves and the price of property is through the roof. These aren’t low-income houses being built today… nor middle class developments… but homes for the wealthy.

To understand the problem of new construction on Long Island you need to know a bit about our landscape. We have two things unique on Long Island, and interconnected that are being threatened. We have a natural aquifer that is only found in one other place in the world… in Tasmania. What protects this aquifer is the presence of a vast expanse of ‘pine barrens.’… The only other place they are found in New Jersey. And in both Long Island and NJ they are pretty much gone.

In 1989 we past a Pine Barren’s protection act which increased the sales tax which additional revenue would be set aside to purchase the remaining Pine Barrens and protect them from developers. Yet Republicans in office in the mid 90’s used the money to balance the budget, rather than to purchase land. And as of yet, very little if any of it has been protected.

They have stretched the laws restricting development to the limit, and have even found loopholes in the law to allow them to build on salt marshes and otherwise restricted areas.

So if their tactics to in fact affect the industry as whole, and not just privet carpenters than perhaps I can see value in it. On the down side however is the reduced job market that will affect skilled tradesmen. The construction industry is the last refuge for the American skilled craftsman… all other skilled jobs have been taken over by machinery that allows for under skilled, overworked, and underpaid to perform the tasks otherwise performed by the craftsman.

However in the long run I think we will be better off with a reduced and more controllable construction industry. Right now it is an enormous uncontrollable beast that threatens to take over land that should be protected for future generations.

[very]

Red Celtic, the thing preventing us from slowing down the construction industry is the almighty dollar. It seems to get in the way of many things, as we well know. Here in Vancouver, every day seemingly I see an old ravine or woodland filled in with highrise buildings and subdivisions.

A large section on the outskirts of the city were at one time an immense forest which spread seemingly forever have in the past 5 years been being filled in with more and more subdivisions with bigger and BIGGER houses (like we really need a 4 floor home with 20 rooms for a 3 person family) and it has been all because people want more.

"More" seems to be how North America is run, its end doesn't seem to be in sight. The desire for "more" has led to problems such as you outlined in regards to the construction industry. But now the want for "more" has now lead to people getting bit in the ass (Like we will find out years from now as well). Originally, in the late 1800s and early 1900s many leases and treaties were signed with the Native peoples of Canada over land agreements (as you well know the two major North American nations have been just as bad as any other nation in the world in regards to segregating a viewed "inferior" race - residential schools, reserves, laws, the list goes on), this land later became one of the high-strung sectors of town, now the leases are running out, and backtaxes, and property values are fluctating as many people have lost more than 1/3 of the value of their homes in less than 5/6 months, all simply because the British back in the old Imperialistic days wanted "more."

I don't know where this post is headed (didn't have much intention at the beginning) so I'm cutting it off here.

[RedCeltic]

Well actually now that we're heading into resession, the bulding industry is slowing down. However I suppose this is only a temporary lul.

What you say Very is quite true, and rases the point I failed to mention... which is at the root of it... is capital.

I fail to see how the tactics of Elf (which I view as simply reckless vandelism) do anything but reinforce the image of eviromentalists as extremist, tree hugging nuts. Greenpeace was alot better in that at least they where vocal, and the worst tactics they came up with was spray painting Nuclear subs... chaining themselves to stuff... etc..

[Guest]

First off, this is Very. I'm just on my school computers.

Exactly, capital led towards this greed for making all the large houses, as we got more money, we wanted to show it off that we have more money.

Greenpeace tactics? Exactly, most enviromental groups I disregard as extremeists with no real motives other than to go have some fun. The Clayquot sound protests and other logging road protests up here, have done nothing but disrupt already controlled logging processes up here in British Columbia, and to disrupt union work, which in turn disrupts the construction trade (which I also am a part of, well one of my two jobs).

Speaking out calmly and not acting rashly will commend more positive attention, and will convey your message a lot better. Which is partially why a fair share of enviromentalist groups don't have a good image in the eyes of the general public and are generalized as extremeists.