Stupid question

[#FF0000]

Lenin is irrelivant to modern socialism imo, the system he started was a failure, Noam Chomsky is many times more relevant to modern socialism than Lenin is.

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sup guise im an ankrado synclist. vote demokrat

hahahahawhahahhahwhahshgvsdhgshdagjas

[#FF0000]

Thanks everyone! I ordered the Communist Manifesto as a starting point, its not arrived yet though. I don't have a lot of good book shops near me, even the second hand oxfam books is quite expensive, though they do have some good stuff. I guess I'll just keep an eye out, and read into what interests me, particularly history. I would like to start reading a newspaper as well to keep up with current affairs, I'm not sure which one to go for though.
What about newspapers? Some of the views of the Socialist Worker here put me off them, I would maybe veer towards a more centrist publication like the Guardian, Independent or Observer.

1) There's a pamphlet called "Principles of Communism" by Engels. It's an extremely basic primer and, I think, more useful than the manifesto.

The manifesto's pretty much just a historical document I think.

2) I actually like socialistworker.org a lot. It's run by the ISO, but it's alright even though I disagree with them. There's also Libcom.org, which is excellent, I think.

And the Guardian is a great paper too.

[RGacky3]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

sup guise im an ankrado synclist. vote demokrat

hahahahawhahahhahwhahshgvsdhgshdagjas

Ok, you do realize that Noam Chomsky is the most respected intellectual in the world right?

[Manic Impressive]

Ok, you do realize that Noam Chomsky is the most respected intellectual in the world right?

Nope.

[Tim Finnegan]

sup guise im an ankrado synclist. vote demokrat

As opposed to all those perfectly viable left-wing parties?

[Manic Impressive]

I think reading takes a bit of practice. The more you do it the more you will be able to concentrate, at least that's what I've found. I find it hard reading long text online which is a shame because there are quite a few good books available for free online.

Just want to reiterate what Nolan said about the brendanmccooney videos they are very good.

[Ele'ill]

How comes you guys know so much stuff? Talking about liberal bourgeois keynesian economics and shit! Wut?! I'm not really a reader, and I wouldn't know where to start (Leftism for dumbfucks perhaps) I try to read up on stuff on wikipedia etc but I zone out quite quickly, particularly with macro economics or into the realms of philosophy or psychology..

Read and research. There's a lot of stuff that bores but I try to apply it to current events, especially ones that directly impact my life. If it's too complex then that's a problem- find a way to re-articulate the points raised so that it's easy to understand. Time spent reading and responding adds to learning. Being able to teach what you've just learned is rewarding.

Second part, more serious, without sounding patronising, how can 'we' as leftists, educate the masses about leftism, when there are (believe it or not) people thicker than me out there? No doubt they can grasp the basic principles (if I can, anyone can) ie money bad, equality good (right?)

Anyway if anyone knows what I'm talking about, tell me!

Individual issues are what effect people's lives- just as an example, saying 'municipal waste water management decisions are at the expense of the environment and lacks community input' is a broad statement but saying 'municipal proposal X in county Y is going to effect these neighborhoods and this stream leading to this lake' starts to illustrate a clearer picture.

[Red Future]

Reading , Documentaries - really if you want to reserch something there are many avenues - public libraries really are remarkable places (or were if the Tories get them)Internet is also useful , Books and the Web i where much of my research was done, I would avoid Wikipedia as a singular source though -its notoriously bogus at times!

[Red Future]

[QUOTE=loyal4life.org;2061260]How comes you guys know so much stuff?

The far left despite the media propaganda as "flag waving lefties" is collectively very intelligent and needs to be to grasp complex theories such as Marxism and Anarchism..in fact far more than your average liberal and well above your average conservative

[#FF0000]

Ok, you do realize that Noam Chomsky is the most respected intellectual in the world right?

that doesn't mean a whole lot to me for some reason.

[#FF0000]

As opposed to all those perfectly viable left-wing parties?

as opposed to voting at all

[#FF0000]

The far left despite the media propaganda as "flag waving lefties" is collectively very intelligent and needs to be to grasp complex theories such as Marxism and Anarchism..in fact far more than your average liberal and well above your average conservative

No, that's dumb. Marxism, I think, is pretty simple.

I think it's that Marxism and anarchism are sort of esoteric things, and so you've got to be a bit of a nerd to read into it at all. Unless you're around a lot of leftists already.

[gorillafuck]

No, don't, you'd be much better off reading more modern and more relevant socialist thinkers.

Even if you don't agree with him, do you seriously not consider Lenin to have been intelligent and worthy of note?

Ok, you do realize that Noam Chomsky is the most respected intellectual in the world right?

No he is not. And Vladmir Lenin, despite that I disagree with him, was so much more intelligent than Noam Chomsky as far as politics go.

[RATM-Eubie]

I think Noam Chomsky's point on the whole vote for Obama thing was that he realized that no other 3rd party candidate had a chance so he was probably just floating out the line "support the lesser of two evils" kind of thing..

[#FF0000]

I think Noam Chomsky's point on the whole vote for Obama thing was that he realized that no other 3rd party candidate had a chance so he was probably just floating out the line "support the lesser of two evils" kind of thing..

Which is ridiculous from a leftist perspective. Both parties are bourgeois, both serve the interests of the ruling class. The only difference is how brazenly they act in the interests of the ruling class.

EDIT: Also I'm p. sure Chomsky recanted on that anyway.

[Tim Finnegan]

I think Noam Chomsky's point on the whole vote for Obama thing was that he realized that no other 3rd party candidate had a chance so he was probably just floating out the line "support the lesser of two evils" kind of thing..

I think Chomsky's point is that he isn't self-indulgent enough to engage in the fetishisation of non-participation that so many on the far-left entertain. The sensible radical does what they can with what they can, they don't go in a huff because the world has not stopped to cater to them, personally.

Which is ridiculous from a leftist perspective. Both parties are bourgeois, both serve the interests of the ruling class. The only difference is how brazenly they act in the interests of the ruling class.

You're confusing "voting for" and "giving all your money, time and first born child to". Easy mistake to make, I know.

EDIT: Also I'm p. sure Chomsky recanted on that anyway.

He said that Obama was even more of a disappointment that he his already-low expectations. That's not quite the same thing.

[#FF0000]

You're confusing "voting for" and "giving all your money, time and first born child to". Easy mistake to make, I know.

I think it's a dumb thing to tell workers to vote for the Democrats (or vote, period) as if that's going to get us where we want to go.

He said that Obama was even more of a disappointment that he his already-low expectations. That's not quite the same thing.

I'd say so, considering he is literally Bush 2 when it comes to foreign policy.

[hatzel]

I'd say so, considering he is literally Bush 2 when it comes to foreign policy.

Naaaaah, didn't you hear, Obama's a socialist, he's a communist, he's the beast of Revelations signaling the start of the end etc. Bush was none of these things

[Tim Finnegan]

I think it's a dumb thing to tell workers to vote for the Democrats (or vote, period) as if that's going to get us where we want to go.

What about telling them to vote Democrat in the full awareness, and making the explicit point that it won't take us where we want to go, but may do a little bit to stop us going too much further in the other direction?

Like I've said before, I vote Labour, but that doesn't mean I like the bastards.

[#FF0000]

What about telling them to vote Democrat in the full awareness, and making the explicit point that it won't take us where we want to go, but may do a little bit to stop us going too much further in the other direction?

But that's ridiculous historically. Let's think of the last few democrats who were president. Hmm. There was... Woodrow Wilson (lol), FDR (who some leftists have a raging hard on for, because he fought nazis I guess), Truman (Nukes), JFK (Cold Warrior), LBJ (Cold Warrior), Clinton (lol bye welfare) and now Obama (sup libya)