Letter to Male Activists from Sisters of Resistance

[Tim Finnegan]

It isn't male chauvinism; its a completely legitimate political position, and its the one that communists have historically taken.

You're misapplying the term "feminism"; while the term was taken to refer exclusively to the liberal variety in the early 20th century, and so opposed by both Marxists and Anarchists, that has not been so for a good many decades. There's a reason that the women's section of the Bolshevik Party is widely looked upon as one of history's greatest feminist movements.

[black magick hustla]

You're misapplying the term "feminism"; while the term was taken to refer exclusively to the liberal variety in the early 20th century, and so opposed by both Marxists and Anarchists, that has not been so for a good many decades. There's a reason that the women's section of the Bolshevik Party is widely looked upon as one of history's greatest feminist movements.

why can't i just call myself a communist? i don't feel like calling myself brown power because i believe mexican workers are fucked and i want people like my to save ourselves

[Ele'ill]

Octavian.. as the FIRST to post braving castration, disembowelment...... and worse! Put a pin on your lapel endorsed by me, a 1970's 2nd wave feminist. be sure to tell all your friends of your courage....
and fuck any one else!! You deserve it!!!!!

Stay on topic.

[Tim Finnegan]

why can't i just call myself a communist?

Because that's not a very good show of solidarity with the gender which comprises the majority of your class.

[coda]

TC,
original link/URL, please, to the article said posted on Indy media or posted elsewhere......

it does not appear to be on Indy media on the date provided

[Ele'ill]

TC,
original link/URL, please, to the article said posted on Indy media or posted elsewhere......

it does not appear to be on Indy media on the date provided

Homepage: http://sistersofresistance.wordpress.com/

It's at the bottom of the page.

And It was posted on Indymedia as well.

[coda]

yeah, i saw the home page.. i don't see the actual article there.. or on indymedia.

[black magick hustla]

I honest don't understand this question.

maybe i don't understand feminism but i can say for sure without tooting my horn that i have a lot of female feminist friends and people that read into all that weird academic stuff and it always seemed to me that feminism is a narrative that starts from the idea of "being a woman" and that is the whole starting point and dominating theme of the narrative. it seems to me that even socialists that are female feminists talk like that. the narrative of "being a woman" is so strong that there is still discussion of whether a male could be a feminist. everyone i know who is down with identity politics (which is a lot of people) seem to be down with like creating this weird identities and starting from those weird identities and then if you disagree then you get called "well you are white" or you are a man and then the discourse ends and there is nothing. i hate that attitude, and the people who take it are people who are so awfully alienated that they cannot see beyond that box they have placed upon themselves. i've lived in many countries, alot by myself. i had to chill with white people, i had to live among black folks, i ended up in places were people tell you sallam allekum and people wear big white vests because the sun is too harsh. i've winded up in situations were all my friends are dudes and in situations were all my friends are gals. gender and race are fucking real but also gender and race are an abortion of class society and fuck if i will ever identify with an identity that has been thrown at me by the fucking bosses.

[black magick hustla]

Because that's not a very good show of solidarity with the gender which comprises the majority of your class.

and the mayority of my class doesn't entertain itself with those fun academic hobbies, unfortunately

[Tim Finnegan]

Well, my compulsive editing has screwed things up again, but, yes, at one point, the text quoted by maldoror did appear in my post, so...

maybe i don't understand feminism but i can say for sure without tooting my horn that i have a lot of female feminist friends and people that read into all that weird academic stuff and it always seemed to me that feminism is a narrative that starts from the idea of "being a woman" and that is the whole starting point and dominating theme of the narrative. it seems to me that even socialists that are female feminists talk like that. the narrative of "being a woman" is so strong that there is still discussion of whether a male could be a feminist. everyone i know who is down with identity politics (which is a lot of people) seem to be down with like creating this weird identities and starting from those weird identities and then if you disagree then you get called "well you are white" or you are a man and then the discourse ends and there is nothing. i hate that attitude, and the people who take it are people who are so awfully alienated that they cannot see beyond that box they have placed upon themselves. i've lived in many countries, alot by myself. i had to chill with white people, i had to live among black folks, i ended up in places were people tell you sallam allekum and people wear big white vests because the sun is too harsh. i've winded up in situations were all my friends are dudes and in situations were all my friends are gals. gender and race are fucking real but also gender and race are an abortion of class society and fuck if i will ever identify with an identity that has been thrown at me by the fucking bosses.

Your opinion of feminism seems to be informed solely by a jumbled of second or third-hand radical and liberal feminism, with little to no input from socialist or Marxist feminism. These schools explicitly identify the class basis of patriarchy, and seek to combat them both simultaneously, because patriarchy cannot be truly overthrown while capitalism remains, and capitalism will never be properly dissolved until its ideological dregs are obliterated.

Feminism is the emancipation of women from patriarchal oppression, and thus the emancipation of both men and women from patriarchal oppression (the vast majority of men being objectively oppressed by patriarchy, although, of course, to a lesser average extent than women). Why wouldn't a communist want to identify with this?

and the mayority of my class doesn't entertain itself with those fun academic hobbies, unfortunately

The majority of your class doesn't entertain itself with Marxism, either. If you're going to resort to this sort of crude workerism, then you may as well give up radical politics now.

Feminism has its theory and its academia, which varies in substance and value as much as any other. But, first and foremost, it is something practised, and if you are not practising feminism, then you can make no honest claims to a radical egalitarianism.

[coda]

Homepage: http://sistersofresistance.wordpress.com/
It's at the bottom of the page.

Thank you..

still not sure whom they are or whom they represent..

[coda]

<<Octavian.. as the FIRST to post braving castration, disembowelment...... and worse! Put a pin on your lapel endorsed by me, a 1970's 2nd wave feminist. be sure to tell all your friends of your courage....
and fuck any one else!! You deserve it!!!!!>>

that is on topic, ms. Mari9...

and accolades to all other who don't fall into the revisionist counter revolutionary 3rd and 4th wave feminism of the 90's and beyond, that tries to divide the working class by gender...

[Tim Finnegan]

and accolades to all other who don't fall into the revisionist counter revolutionary 3rd and 4th wave feminism of the 90's and beyond, that tries to divide the working class by gender...

I understood "accolades", but then it all went stupid.

[Ele'ill]

that tries to divide the working class by gender...

Patriarchy does that- which is what's being discussed and opposed in the article.

[Robocommie]

It isn't male chauvinism; its a completely legitimate political position, and its the one that communists have historically taken. Obviously it is possible for male chauvinists to hold this view as well, but its equally possible for them to be feminists of some variety or another.

Where's the dividing line though? I'm sympathetic to your position, which I assume is based on looking at class politics over gender politics, but where's the dividing line between a Communist position and a position that's just wholly clueless about sexism?

[Amphictyonis]

why can't i just call myself a communist? i don't feel like calling myself brown power because i believe mexican workers are fucked and i want people like my to save ourselves

Actually, women of color experience the worst of capitalism. Different people have different perspectives, part of it is the ability to empathize- to put yourself in their/our shoes and realize how you may feel in certian situations if it were you experiencing it. Most white women have a different experience than women of color. It's a shit list of the fucked up side effects of capitalism. A very touchy and sensitive shit list that has the ability to both drive a wedge between people and bring people together.

[9]

Where's the dividing line though? I'm sympathetic to your position, which I assume is based on looking at class politics over gender politics, but where's the dividing line between a Communist position and a position that's just wholly clueless about sexism?

I don't really know what you mean by "the dividing line"?
Also, my position isn't based on "looking at class politics over gender politics" but that "gender politics" doesn't offer any real possibility of liberation for working class women, or even any accurate method for understanding the actual basis of their oppression in the first place, but instead operates on the assumption that they have interests in common with their female bosses.

[coda]

<<Patriarchy does that- which is what's being discussed and opposed in the article.>>

ohhh. does it???? gee thanks for letting me know... wow.. I feel a light bulb smarter!!!! You should have been here posting here in 2000 when me and 2 others were keeping this fucker alive between the 3of us.. pre Bush.. pre 9-11..

where were you then.. powerdrome?

[Ele'ill]

<<Patriarchy does that- which is what's being discussed and opposed in the article.>>

ohhh. does it???? gee thanks for letting me know... wow.. I feel a light bulb smarter!!!! You should have been here posting here in 2000 when me and 2 others were keeping this fucker alive between the 3of us.. pre Bush.. pre 9-11..

where were you then.. powerdrome?

"Powerdrome was released on the Atari ST by Electronic Arts in 1988 and includes six tracks, set across five planets. The road-equivalent turning method of..Infraction 2nd off topic post and on the same page as the other.

[Ele'ill]

What am i getting an infracton for... talking back? Disrespecting the authority?

Well, that's a first then! I never disrespect authority, and I never talk back! Looks like the women are all out of control again..... maybe I better wash my mouth out with soap.

You could have used this next post here of yours to add to the original thread conversation but instead decided to make your third irrelevant post of the page.