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So you would propose making alcohol, drugs etc. all illegal.
I think that considering the majority of people drink alcohol and a substantial amount drink it to the point where they are drunk the number of deaths, injury, abuse etc. that occurs as a result is acceptable.
Who decides if Marijuana is acceptable and cocaine isn't? You?
What are you saying? I would suggest that I will never be in such a position, I would suggest I will never have the consent of masses of people to do so. So, I will never decide. However, if given popular consent to do so, I and others in similar positions of power would decide.
The point in my post is it is my personal opinion that Cocaine is more harmful than Marijuana. Does that make sense?
I assume that alcohol is okay with you because you drink.
That would be fair to say.
Alcohol aids the leisure time of people in a relatively safe manner
Yes, it is relatively safe, in my opinion. I do know that it is the cause for violence, motoring accidents etc.
Tell the 20,000 odd people killed every year in drunk driving accidents how benign alcohol is.
So you propose we ban alcohol, something that is so widely used and so greatly enjoyed because 20,000 people die every year. Would it not be better to attempt to reduce the harmful effects of it considering we have had success in doing so and that trend is likely to continue.
Well if alcohol abuse augments abhorrent behavior, then why in the world would you allow these effects on society, but punish (with death) the use of a drug that statistically shows much less damage to society?
As I said I think these abuses that do occur do not warrant the banning of alcohol. In addition, as I said cases such as this would be reduced by communist conscience (people internalising the norms of social berhaviour). In addition, the state and community would have a larger role and greater knowledge on people's individual lives.
Show me one statistic where higher spousal abuse is attributable to heroine use for example.
This is entirely irrelevant.
You can rationalize it all you want. If alcohol and cigarettes are going to be legal, there is no real reason to criminalize drug use.
I still disagree. I think alcohol proportionately less damage than drugs.
Formerly known as Chairman Mao
Between the people and their enemies there can be nothing in common but the sword; we must govern by iron those who cannot be governed by justice
~Saint-Just
I condemn the dust of which I am made, this dust that speaks to you now. It can be persecuted, it can be brought to death. But I challenge the world to take from me that part of me which will live through the centuries and survive in the skies.
~Saint-Just
QUOTE
I think all drug dealers should be imprisoned/executed. I think drugs users should be too, exlcusing Marijuana users. I think all drugs should be banned excluding Marijuana. However, I think that these are measures that may not be taken in early development of socialism.
Heres your sign:
Resist Much. Obey Little
-Walt Whitman
<span style=\'color:gray\'>"As through this life you travel, you meet some funny men
Some rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen
As through this life you ramble, as through this life you roam
You'll never see an outlaw take a family from their home"
-from Pretty Boy Floyd
(W. Guthrie)</span>
I guess its healthy for these boards to have some frighteningly Totalitarian members, but I wonder how Dhul feels about his impending execution?
Resist Much. Obey Little
-Walt Whitman
<span style=\'color:gray\'>"As through this life you travel, you meet some funny men
Some rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen
As through this life you ramble, as through this life you roam
You'll never see an outlaw take a family from their home"
-from Pretty Boy Floyd
(W. Guthrie)</span>
No, I wouldn't. I'm saying that a person should be able to make up his own mind regarding substances. The point I was trying to convey, is that it's rediculous to keep alcohol legal and other drugs illegal. Personal recreational substance choice, is not a duty for the state.
So you propose that we execute drug users and ban all drugs, something that is so widely used and so greatly enjoyed even though less people die from it's effects than alcohol every year?
If it's better to attempt to reduce harmful effects of alcohol, then why couldn't the same attempts be made with drugs? Why is alcohol worthy of this endowment and not any other drug?
Thinking it's less damaging rather than knowing it is, is the problem. Let's see some numbers. Prove that it is.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Mao: You are clinically insane - that is all I can really say to the sheer volume of hipocracy, naivity and childlike totalitarianism you have exhibited in this thread. You are a conservative who buys into any lie that suits you - alcohol is fine because you happen to like drinking it.
I piss on the memory of your neighbour's favorite childhood pet... =D
--- G.
A little poison now and then: that maketh pleasant dreams. And much poison at last for a pleasant death
- from Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche's 'Thus Spake Zarathustra'
No, I wouldn't. I'm saying that a person should be able to make up his own mind regarding substances. The point I was trying to convey, is that it's rediculous to keep alcohol legal and other drugs illegal. Personal recreational substance choice, is not a duty for the state.
I think to a large degree that substances should be controlled to a point where people are excluded entirely from using certain substances. I think almost everything is a duty for the state since I view the path to communism as homogenisation of every individual towards collective desire and ideology, that is a working-class ideology. One these ideas and ways of thinking had been internalised an anarchic society would be created.
So you propose that we execute drug users and ban all drugs, something that is so widely used and so greatly enjoyed even though less people die from it's effects than alcohol every year?
Far less widely used than alcohol. In addition I think the side effects are worse. If as many peopel abused drugs as alcohol I think we would have a far worse problem.
Thinking it's less damaging rather than knowing it is, is the problem. Let's see some numbers. Prove that it is.
In this instance I am not motivated enough to give you figures. Would it influence you at all, probably not.
Mao: You are clinically insane - that is all I can really say to the sheer volume of hipocracy, naivity and childlike totalitarianism you have exhibited in this thread. You are a conservative who buys into any lie that suits you - alcohol is fine because you happen to like drinking it. -Dhul Figar
I was joking about accepting alcohol because I like it. I have used drugs too, although I have never experienced any negative effects other people have. I think they are as enjoyable as drinking, however I personally see drugs as anti-social and to have worse effects than alcohol. Their enjoyment they an induce is far greater than alcohol, however the bad effects are far more severe, and they can inhibit your ability to function far more than alcohol.
I certainly do not think I am naive, hipocritical or childlike or that I buy into any lies. Would you suggest anyone who is as conservative as me regarding these issues to be childlike and so on? These views are, as I have stated in other threads, nothing to do with my ideology, they are to do with my personal experiences which I can well imagine are different to yours. about 4 years ago I was in favour of legalising all drugs, prostitution etc. however due to the path my life took and experiences I had my views radically altered. I cannot say if that is a positive thing, and it is indeed hard to rationalise it. However, it is deeply ingrained now. I tie in my ideology with that now and look at how my political ideology could achieve these social views I now have.
Formerly known as Chairman Mao
Between the people and their enemies there can be nothing in common but the sword; we must govern by iron those who cannot be governed by justice
~Saint-Just
I condemn the dust of which I am made, this dust that speaks to you now. It can be persecuted, it can be brought to death. But I challenge the world to take from me that part of me which will live through the centuries and survive in the skies.
~Saint-Just
Ok, the purpose of rationing food is not to make sure that someone isn't getting more than they need, but to make sure that no one is starving, and to make responsible, proper, effiecient use of society's limited resources. I feel that alcohol, cigarettes, all drugs non necessitated by a medical condition should be banned because they are detramental to society. Regardless weather or not using them makes you feel happy, the fact of the matter is, is that nothing good can ever come out of their use other than a euphoric happiness and a destroyed life and they do nothing to strengthen society, but I don't think you should EXECUTE people who use/deal drugs, I feel instead they should be treated, rehabilitated, indoctrinated/educated, and reintegrated into society through a commune. Saying we should execute people with a drug addiction is about as logical as saying you should fix a house with a plumbing problem by demolishing the place, or curing cancer by executing patients as they are diagnosed. The purpose of the judical system should not be to punish, but instead to rehabilitate. Chairman Mao, you are perhaps the only person on this forum who is more of a totalitarian than I, perhaps because I take a lot of liberal views. But as Dhul said, to allow alcohol while threatening to execute everyone who does drugs is very hypocritical. Alcoholism in any form should not be permitted to exist within a communist society.
I do listen to a lot of hip-hop myself, but as I said on Che-Lives I would get rid of all my CDs if Kim Jong Il told me. - Chairman Mao
i bet ur all like 40 and boring and not happy! - glamgirl610
Perhaps, we should initiate a movement: Let the American soldiers go home crosses the Christmas day?... - @[email protected]@
Artificial gamma ray bursters can sterilise entire parsecs. Now THAT's a deterrent! - NoXion
I was only trying to defend the south pole - DarkAngel
Didnt you hear the about the devestation GM food had on farmers in India? They basically committed mass suicide due to the GM seeds they used. - Senora Che
Cuba is also really shit...so is Leninism and MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr! - The Anarchist Tension
And the Greeks were tan and brown not white. They could not have just made up their gods like that poped into their mind. -Comrade Zeke
Finally I got my hands on a copy of the communist manifesto. Like ......Aren't there any revised editions? - revolutionindia
Mao: You don't even seem to realize that alcohol IS a drug - what you are saying is that anything illegal is naturally worse for you than something that is legal - I reject that notion out of hand.
--- G.
A little poison now and then: that maketh pleasant dreams. And much poison at last for a pleasant death
- from Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche's 'Thus Spake Zarathustra'
these little hand grenades are perfectly legal!
edit: In fact, their just going to seed now!
Resist Much. Obey Little
-Walt Whitman
<span style=\'color:gray\'>"As through this life you travel, you meet some funny men
Some rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen
As through this life you ramble, as through this life you roam
You'll never see an outlaw take a family from their home"
-from Pretty Boy Floyd
(W. Guthrie)</span>
Weapons, on the other hand, should be kept legal. People have a right to defend themselves. Besides, if heavy weapons were made illegal, then the only people who would have them are the people who weren't supposed to. Weather it be to protect the nation against counter-revolutionaries, or to simply to protect themselves, however people who do not have an CLEAN record, should not be allowed to live outside a commune by themselves, much less have any sort of weapons.
I do listen to a lot of hip-hop myself, but as I said on Che-Lives I would get rid of all my CDs if Kim Jong Il told me. - Chairman Mao
i bet ur all like 40 and boring and not happy! - glamgirl610
Perhaps, we should initiate a movement: Let the American soldiers go home crosses the Christmas day?... - @[email protected]@
Artificial gamma ray bursters can sterilise entire parsecs. Now THAT's a deterrent! - NoXion
I was only trying to defend the south pole - DarkAngel
Didnt you hear the about the devestation GM food had on farmers in India? They basically committed mass suicide due to the GM seeds they used. - Senora Che
Cuba is also really shit...so is Leninism and MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr! - The Anarchist Tension
And the Greeks were tan and brown not white. They could not have just made up their gods like that poped into their mind. -Comrade Zeke
Finally I got my hands on a copy of the communist manifesto. Like ......Aren't there any revised editions? - revolutionindia
wepons do far more damedge to pepole than drugs you know.
Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
WORKERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE!
Written by Karl Marx
The purpose of the judical system should not be to punish, but instead to rehabilitate.
Punishment is more important than rehabilitation since as the one of the greatest deterrents to commit crime it is most important in preventing crime. Without punishment crime becomes more acceptable. Punishment is the most important apect of rehabilitation, without punishment people tend not to realise they have done something wrong. The purpose of the judicial system, police, prisons etc. is to protect society. Rehabilitation is done since we see that human beings are redeemable.
Mao: You don't even seem to realize that alcohol IS a drug - what you are saying is that anything illegal is naturally worse for you than something that is legal - I reject that notion out of hand.
I know it is a drug, many drugs do positive things. I do not reject all illegal drugs, I do not reject marijuana, I do not reject certain other drugs, specifically ones designed to enhance physical performance. Therefore I also reject this notion out of hand, that is the notion that anything illegal is naturally worse.
Formerly known as Chairman Mao
Between the people and their enemies there can be nothing in common but the sword; we must govern by iron those who cannot be governed by justice
~Saint-Just
I condemn the dust of which I am made, this dust that speaks to you now. It can be persecuted, it can be brought to death. But I challenge the world to take from me that part of me which will live through the centuries and survive in the skies.
~Saint-Just
And yet you use the word "drugs" to compare to alcohol, as if it were some kind of catchall term for related chemicals that all basically have the same effects AND as if they are all completely seperate from this "alcohol" entity that occupies a completely different category despite being part of the original category. Confusing? I agree
"Drugs" are not all the same and in most cases do not even have remotely similar characteristics, as you obviously know, so how on earth can you stand by statements comparing "drugs" to alcohol in such ridiculously broad terms?
--- G.
A little poison now and then: that maketh pleasant dreams. And much poison at last for a pleasant death
- from Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche's 'Thus Spake Zarathustra'
how true. For the first half of this topic i used fact based argument against unsupported opinions, if you want facts go and read the first 5 pages
.
wow i think this is your longest post ever! very unusual to see you say anything other than 'good point', or 'i agree' or the dreaded 'good post comrade x '.
Referring to your "Know You're Dope Fiend" facts about 3 joints equalling 20 cigarettes isn't what I'm talking about.
I'm asking you to show me:
1. greater numbers of dometic abuse attributable to drugs compared to alcohol.
2. greater numbers of traffic fatalities attributable to drugs compared to alcohol.
3. higher rates of emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease attributable to drugs (marijuana) compared to cigarettes.
It's all about personal freedoms. You're either for allowing people to freely imbibe in their drug of choice, whether it's caffeine, nicotein, THC, LSD, Cocaine, etc or your not. One is not better than the other. Only legislated more than the other at present.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
while were talking about drugs:
Opium 'threatens' Afghan future
Production rose by six percent on last year, to around 3,600 metric tonnes, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime found.
BBC News - Afghanistan
I had read somewhere a couple of months ago that opium production in afghanistan was up something along the lines of 1500% from pre-war volumes.
Here's an interesting article comparing production during the Taliban regime and post war.
...The total opium production this year has been estimated at about 3,400 tons, compared with 185 tons in 2001 the result of the Taliban ban.
More...
http://opioids.com/afghanistan/2002.html
It's okay though...the CIA needs the Opium for covert arms deals...
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Same as usual then, yanks going to other countries to make them as bad as the states, wankers.
Yes, you are correct. But when I mention drugs I am referring to those drugs I mentioned earlier as viewing as undesirable. I was fairly simplistic in casting my net as I said 'Heroin, Cocaine etc.' I am not in an administrative stream of the government concocting a policy on the handling of such substances, so I have not researched all those various substances that governments are typically prohibiting from use.Originally posted by Dhul Fiqar@Oct 29 2003, 01:26 PM
And yet you use the word "drugs" to compare to alcohol, as if it were some kind of catchall term for related chemicals that all basically have the same effects AND as if they are all completely seperate from this "alcohol" entity that occupies a completely different category despite being part of the original category. Confusing? I agree
"Drugs" are not all the same and in most cases do not even have remotely similar characteristics, as you obviously know, so how on earth can you stand by statements comparing "drugs" to alcohol in such ridiculously broad terms?
--- G.
You would be correct to suggest my argument is fairly inaccurate in what substances I am comparing to or which ones I am addressing. It would only be safe to assume I was only addressing drugs that fall under the category of 'Class A' and 'Class B' in the British legal system. I know you probably have no idea as to what 'drugs' these might be. So, it would probably be clearer to assume that I am only referring to Cocaine and Heroin for the sake of argument. I think that it is fairly common to blanket illegal substances of this nature under the term 'drugs', or at least it is in Britain.
Formerly known as Chairman Mao
Between the people and their enemies there can be nothing in common but the sword; we must govern by iron those who cannot be governed by justice
~Saint-Just
I condemn the dust of which I am made, this dust that speaks to you now. It can be persecuted, it can be brought to death. But I challenge the world to take from me that part of me which will live through the centuries and survive in the skies.
~Saint-Just
