Capitialist Propaganda

[madmax]

U.S. Air has not laid off any workers, I believe. But the airlines have taken a huge hit. If these "capitalist pig" companies went bankrupt, what would their unemployed working class do? Would they be better off for not having a company to work for? What does a working class DO? Work? For who? Capitalist pigs? Can a worker and an employer be part of the same perfect world? How can one part of that relationship be only good and the other part be only bad? You people seem to have all the answers, so maybe you can enlighten me.

[madmax]

The correct spelling is "demagogue". Are you saying that I was being deceitful? How? How is the government not helping people, specifically? Does helping the "capitalist system" help the worker? You didn't answer any of my questions, you just called me a "demagogue".

[Moskitto]

I'm sick of hearing capitalists talking about our system not taking into account human nature when i found a capitalist FAQ website which talks about "True Capitalism" being a good system where everyone is employed (Even though some capitalists create unemployment to increase demand for workers and lower wages) and says dumb things like "capitalism can only exist with democracy" and calls countries with social security, free health care and minimum wage laws "oppressive." When really the ideas they talk about would not work with the human nature arguement they talk about.

[ViktorPravda]

It is totally unrealistic to think that people would take the risk of starting, owning and operating a company without the possibility of monetary remuneration. On the other hand, why is it necessary for these people to gather so much wealth. They can make money and still treat their workers fairly. There is a middle ground.

[Jurhael]

Indeed there is a middle ground, but a lot of people want only one way--theirs.

At any rate, the problem is that the CEOs often make up 10-20 times MORE than the average worker AND the workers take the pay cut and THEY are the ones who end up unemployed so the upper rungs don't have to take a paycut.

I think Japan and countries in Europe have the right idea. The CEOs make about 5-8% more than the worker and THEY take a paycut before the workers do.

[RedSteve]

The reason the bosses are laying people off at this time is partly because of the terrorist attack, but the airlines were already in crisis, the attack accelerated the economic slump, it didn't create it. They laid people off behind the smoke screen of the attack. To stand up and fight for your job whilst the President is demending "you are on our side or the side of the terrorists" could be construed as 'unpatriotic' and pro terrorist. The denial of the crisis before the attack also leaves the door wide open for racism to flourish, as it alread has begun to. The capitalist system always looks for someone to blame when their system is in crisis. Don't think for a minuet that they wont use the tradgedy to their full advantage.

We an the left have a massive task ahead of us,
we need to fight against the immenant war, The racist backlash, and the econimic system which will make the workers pay for the terrorism with their jobs.

Where is all the "we are all in this together" when the redundancy notices are handed out?

Come on people, Wake Up!

[revolutionary spirit]

well i think the attack on the WTC can be compared to world war one,for a number of reasons,the most obvious being that many people well loose their lives,but aslo the 1914 ''war fever'' that exsisted now and exsisted then,but by 1917 the first ever worker's revolution had occured,so maybe the grim reality will be disclosed to the masses.On the other hand the propagandha these days are what goebells would of dreamed about.

[RedSteve]

thats a good point Revolutionary Spirit, but I think the similarities end with the mass support for the war. Before WW1 there was a global mass workers movement and an influential revolutionary movement. The Russian Revolution should have been the spark that ignited the world revolution. But the capitulation of the socialists (most importantly in Germany) to the war effort damaged the workers movement irrepairably. It's been a long time, and our movement is dead on its feet. The revolutionary socialist elan doesn't exist in the way that it did back then and really hasn't since. Lenin fought against the capitulation but his warnings fell on deaf ears. We have to make this time that all socialists oppose this war and don't support the 'progressive' aspects of removing the Taliban from Afghanistan. The Taliban do not have my support, I want to see them removed from power in Afghanistan but if the western powers do it in the name of 'internatioalism' (as Tony Blair is proposing in Britain) they are substituting the word internationalism for imperialism. They say they want to defeat terrorism, but their war will cause more inocent lives t be lost. They don't call bombing of innocent civilians terror when they do it, as many have expressed all over this site.

It is during this coming war (very soon now we will see an attack on Afghanistan) we will need to rebuild our movement.

[ViktorPravda]

Well RedSteve... We are at war now. What we need to do is spread the word that there are no blacks, whites, reds, yellows. There are only Human Beings. As Human Beings we need to realize that the enemy is not one another, it is the system that keeps us inour respective "places".